Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: billmac on March 13, 2007, 11:21:52 am
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Anyone use something other than a flemish twist string? I've read every flemish twist tutorial I can find and I still can't make them make sense to me. What other alternatives are there?
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Send me a PM with your address. I bought a video awhile back. It took about 10 minutes of actually watching it to get the hang of it. I had trouble with the written version too... Chris
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Got your message. I should be able to drop it in the mail tomorrow. Seeing it done really simplifies the process. I used to make endless loops till I figured flemish out.... Chris
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It was one of those “ah ha” moments, after a lot of fumbling and cursing, but it really is a calk walk. Suppose I want to make a 14 strand Flemish string. I measure out 7 fibers of B-50, and then wax both ends of the fiber bundle lightly, a bit past where I want to begin twisting the loops. Then, I measure out another set of 7 fibers, waxing the ends.
I hold both bundles together with my left hand, just past the point where I want to begin the top loop. One set of fibers is on top of the other, all untwisted at this point, and separated with my forefinger. I twist the top group of seven fibers AWAY from me (clockwise) between my thumb and second finger, a couple of twists.
Then, I pull that twisted bundle TOWARD me, counterclockwise, across the top of the second set of 7 bottom fibers. I pinch both fiber bundles lightly with my left hand, and then, twist what is now the bottom set of fibers AWAY from me, clockwise, a couple of twists. Then, I pull that bundle toward me, over the top. Do it over and over again, and voila.
I twist until I have about 4 inches or so of untwisted fibers. I make the loop, and repeat the process, this time twisting the 14 fibers away from me, then across the already twisted string. Repeat until you have your finished loop. I don’t usually make a bottom loop, and instead tie the string on the bow with a bowyers knot.
Using two colors of B-50 can help see what is going on, and looks cool, though I use mostly one color, brown.
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I made a jig, basically a board with nails, I think I got the plan from ferrets site. For twisting I clamp the two bundles in my wise. Keeps both hands free and makes it easy.
DanaM
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It was one of those “ah ha” moments, after a lot of fumbling and cursing, but it really is a calk walk. Suppose I want to make a 14 strand Flemish string. I measure out 7 fibers of B-50, and then wax both ends of the fiber bundle lightly, a bit past where I want to begin twisting the loops. Then, I measure out another set of 7 fibers, waxing the ends.
I hold both bundles together with my left hand, just past the point where I want to begin the top loop. One set of fibers is on top of the other, all untwisted at this point, and separated with my forefinger. I twist the top group of seven fibers AWAY from me (clockwise) between my thumb and second finger, a couple of twists.
Then, I pull that twisted bundle TOWARD me, counterclockwise, across the top of the second set of 7 bottom fibers. I pinch both fiber bundles lightly with my left hand, and then, twist what is now the bottom set of fibers AWAY from me, clockwise, a couple of twists. Then, I pull that bundle toward me, over the top. Do it over and over again, and voila.
I twist until I have about 4 inches or so of untwisted fibers. I make the loop, and repeat the process, this time twisting the 14 fibers away from me, then across the already twisted string. Repeat until you have your finished loop. I don’t usually make a bottom loop, and instead tie the string on the bow with a bowyers knot.
Using two colors of B-50 can help see what is going on, and looks cool, though I use mostly one color, brown.
I got the same trouble as Bill. I read all about it, but can't figure out what to do with the tag ends once I make my loop...how to match them up with the main strands etc.
It's confusing fer ser.
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When you roll the loop over, match the tag ends color to color, and start twisting again away from the loop. I braid about 6 inches from the end of the loop then clip at the end of the twist. Switch ends and repeat the process. It seems complicated when reading, but seeing (at least for me) made it easy.
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I kinda got that, but doesn't it mean you are rolling the bundles over the main string and not actually braiding into the main string? ???
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No, when you put the tag ends to color, you have two bundles again to braid. If somebody else doesn't do it before I can get home this evening, I'll try to post some pics.
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I'd appreciate that alot!
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You might also look here, http://www2.pcom.net/jthutten/jth/doc/flemish.htm. It may help, but if you're like me you need visuals.
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The best info I have found for tieing the Flemish is in The Traditional Bowhunter mag April/May 1995
if you can get a back order you'll be good to go!
It has pictures that actually help. string board construction as tieing techniques,,,,
Sometimes it gets confusing in the final braid of the loop, but I find if you have three different colors it helps in matching up the strands, then just match em up twist together and continue to twist wrap till it runs out
I mentioned three colors as I mostly tie three bundle strings,,, :)
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This tutorial is helpful:
http://residents.bowhunting.net/sticknstring/string.html
I am determined to make decent strings, myself. Problem I am having is the strands are not locking up tight. When I pull on the finished end, the bottom twist tends to come undone.
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Here another link its the one I used to learn http://www.geocities.com/salampsio/flemish1.htm
It helps to have 3 hands thats why I use my vise as a third hand.
DanaM
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DanaM
You're the man.
This geocities link is very helpful. As soon as my finger blisters heal, I'll start over.
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Anyone just do a loop and make a rope the rest of the way down by reverse twisting? Bet you could get away with using fewer strands this way!
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i did it once, it's uuuugly ;D you can't beat the beauty of a double loop flemish string. i make mine the way it was shown in the last tutorial (except for the end of the serving,but that's personal preference) and they are a piece of cake to make....after you've successfully finished the first one. the a-ha effect was mentioned before and it's exactly what happened to me.
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Either today or tomorrow I am going to make a new Flemish string. I'll take some photos so you get the perspective of the maker looking at the string throughout the process. Simple and really satisfying.
It might help someone. I'll use yellow and brown B-50, so it is clearer.
Give me a day or two or three, though.
Dane
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Ok! This will sound stupid. How do you keep the twist, on the second loop from getting back into the string?
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Ok! This will sound stupid. How do you keep the twist, on the second loop from getting back into the string?
EXACTLY!!!! This is something else I've lost sleep over. :-[
I've tried to do this with a dummy string for practice and I'm confused.
Those pics from the twister's perspective might help alot too.
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That's why tou clip the bottom of the first loop. Then as you do the second, you occaisionally untwist the bottom. Simple huh.
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John McPherson also has an article called Primitive Bowsting in the Apr/may issue, that will be out in your mailboxes in the next week or so.
Lenny Rosenkrans has one called 7 seceret steps to smoother sinew in this issue as well.
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Old Bow.
You have to make sure that you twist the same direction on both ends. If they come undone then you twisted one diff.. The more you twist the string , it should get tighter.
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That's why tou clip the bottom of the first loop. Then as you do the second, you occaisionally untwist the bottom. Simple huh.
NO :-\
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Sorry, its not easy without visuals. When you finish twisting one end (after you made your loop), put a clip,clothspin etc where they cross. This will keep the first loop from untwisting while you work on the second loop. Then go to the other end and start the second loop just like the first. Braid the three inches (for a 1 1/2" loop) double it and smooth the tag ends back onto their color. Then braid as before. As you twist and braid the center will twist. Stop evry so often and run your finger between the strands from where you are holding the last crossing down to toward the first loop you made. Then continue braiding. When you finish the second loop, hook one on a peg pull straight, then twist the whole string in the direction to shorten the string. It really is very simple when you see it done. Its way faster and easier than an endless loop to me. Sorry if this is still clear as mud. I'll send my video to Billmac, them maybe he can send it to you I read all the descriptions and couldn't get it to work. 10 minutes of seeing it and made a string. never looked back.
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It's funny how some things are easy for some and hard for others.Things that ya'll do I struggle with. But I ordered a string jig from 3 rivers and it came with a one page paragraph on how to twist the flemish string- no pictures- I grabbed some string and went to twisting my first string was perfect length. I had no trouble at all with it!! OK, if someone will steam my wood without checking it like me I'll make you a string!!! Heck go ahead and finish my bow for me also!!!
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Sorry, its not easy without visuals. When you finish twisting one end (after you made your loop), put a clip,clothspin etc where they cross. This will keep the first loop from untwisting while you work on the second loop. Then go to the other end and start the second loop just like the first. Braid the three inches (for a 1 1/2" loop) double it and smooth the tag ends back onto their color. Then braid as before. As you twist and braid the center will twist. Stop evry so often and run your finger between the strands from where you are holding the last crossing down to toward the first loop you made. Then continue braiding. When you finish the second loop, hook one on a peg pull straight, then twist the whole string in the direction to shorten the string. It really is very simple when you see it done. Its way faster and easier than an endless loop to me. Sorry if this is still clear as mud. I'll send my video to Billmac, them maybe he can send it to you I read all the descriptions and couldn't get it to work. 10 minutes of seeing it and made a string. never looked back.
Well if Billmac is so willing, but I'm sure he'll make good use of it.
All these directions make sense for the most part, there's just those couple of stubborn techniques that confuse or escape me all together...a visual is the best way to learn most anything. Makes a mental picture you don't soon forget if you pay attention.
Thanks for all your help guys.
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I don't care much for double-loop strings. I like the old-school flemish string with a loop on one end and a timber hitch on the other.
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I'm with Hillbilly on that! One loop and a timber hitch(bowyers knot). The way I measure things, it's the only way. ;D Pat
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...........Yup.......dont care much for loops, as a matter of fact hate 'em ! Over hand 'not on top and tie on bottom--my own version of bowyers hitch. Too lazy to make loop on top ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D !......bob
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well, once i'm done with the first loop, i ad about 50 twists, which will be split between the first and the second loop, later. i haven't found it necessary to clamp the string once i'm done with those twists. i just turn the string around, and repeat the process EXACTLY the same way i did the first loop. while i'm twisting the second loop in, it takes twists out at the other end. i just try to make the splices and the follow-on twists equal length on both loops. and, yes, i do use this compact jig (which i made myself in about half an hour) to determine string length: http://www2.pcom.net/jthutten/jth/doc/flemish.htm it also helps the splice fade out smoothly, since all strands are of different length
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I'll be happy to send the video on.
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Finally made my first successful double loop Flemish string. This site offered up by DanaM
was pretty helpful. http://www.geocities.com/salampsio/flemish1.htm
The idea of "twisting away" clockwise and then bringing it across the bottom group and then repeating with the bottom group which is now on top threw me for awhile.
One note: keep the cat away from your work area.
I did make up my own wax by melting together a candle and toilet seal wax together. Poured it into a beer can with the top cut off. After the mixture cools, peal the aluminum down. The base of the can makes for a good support.
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Glad I could help Oldbow, its one of them things that just finally clicks.
DanaM
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Oldbow, I like the wax idea. I generally use beeswax though.
Billmac, the tapes on the way... Chris
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Oldbow, I like the wax idea. I generally use beeswax though.
Billmac, the tapes on the way... Chris
Agbowyer/Billmac....Thanks very much for being willing to help out the inexperienced...and of course everyone else on this site too!LOL.
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That toilet bowl wax is excellent fly tying dubbing wax.... ::) :-\ :)
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...AAH !.................a fellow fly tier...........................bob
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Count me in too Bob. When I was in high school I made a little money tying flies for shops in Oregon and a couple out-of-state. Took the fun right out of it. Now my fly box typically has five flies in it. Ruining hobbies is not the best way to make a living. :P
This is a hilarious thread. I'm remembering the agony. Learning to make a flemish string takes five minutes with a live human teacher. After that the published tutorials will serve to refresh your memory. It's a worthwhile thing to learn--no question.
Does anyone do 3-bundle flemish strings? They're much harder for me but I like the way they look.
J. D. Duff
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j.d. i haven't tried it yet. what makes it harder?
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Bob I also tie up a few flies, not the best but good enuf.
DanaM
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Bob, I tie a few too, not as many as I used to. I tied to sell for awhile and about got burned out on it. Nowadays I tie up just enough to last me and a couple buddies through the season.
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Dustybaer,
It's the same process with one more bundle of bowstring. It's just harder to keep a tight reverse-twist and an even finished product because you have to keep three bundles in order with two hands. I did all three-bundle strings for a while and then switched to two bundles for ease. Now I'm doing the old timberhitch and single loop to see how I like it.
J. D. Duff
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Hey, a lot in common here.....I have tied flies since I was a boy.
Sold a few, but mostly tied for family and friends.
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DanaM has posted the same website I used http://www.geocities.com/salampsio/flemish1.htm
It helped me to actually do the movements with my hands as I read them. I must have looked pretty strange in the library!
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I'm definitely understanding the art of making strings considerably more---the problem is I just don't know where to get the actual spools from!?!
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youtube has a good video of the loop being made
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Whenever I get frustrated working on my bows I stop and go make a string. It was tough when I started because it kept undoing the previous loop. I thought I was twisting it all wrong but I was just untwisting it. I hadn't thought of just adding a few extra, so I was just turning the loop end in the same direction as I was twisting the individual strands, which happened to be away from me. I'm left handed so I won't give exact directions for fear of further confusing the confused. :P Doing it this way kept the individual strands from twisting up. I have never done a 3 strand but I keep telling myself... some day. :) I also use the compact jig. It all fits on my lap easier.
possum