Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: southern shooter on February 24, 2010, 09:11:34 am
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Hello...
I have a red oak board. Actual dimensions are 3/4" X 2 1/2" X 6'. It is rift sawn with the grain directions looking rather straight on the back. The sides look pretty good, too. I plan to back it with a burlap in a bed of Titebond III.
What bow(s) design would you more experienced bowyers recommend to a novice?
Thanks
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I'd go with a flatbow - 4 inch handle design that you will see used very frequently on this board. Search around and you will see. What is your draw?
I'd go with a longer bow by a couple of inches or so than what you think you will need. You can always pike or shorten the nocks later to bring up draw weight. Get the limbs working slightly out of the handle fades first. Then work your way down the limb to the most bend mid limb and stiffening back up to no bend towards the last 6 inches or so to the nocks. Take your time, when your tiller is getting close you only want to scrape a little then re-string and exercise the limbs about 30 times to work in the change. Never pull past your intended draw weight until you reach it at full draw. If the wood is bending too much in one spot the wood will fret. This happened with my first red oak flatbow. The Traditional Bowyers Bible Vol.1 discusses tillering thoroughly and is an excellent read. I still refer to mine all the time. Do you have a pulley tillering system made yet? Post photos as you go and get feedback and you'll come out on top. Patience is a virtue!
Good luck!
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Hey SS
With the width and length you have you could about make anything you wanted, and ya didn't really say what your interests are....(hunting, target, 3-D etc.)
The 3/4" thickness will probably require a small grip riser as I make most of my bows grip 1-1/8" (min.) deep...unless you make a "D" bow that bends through the handle. You have plenty of width for a paddle-bow, more than you need for a nice pyramid style, or maybe 2 bows if you went with a long-thin type bow profiles.
Any of those shapes make good bows....so I guess it would (or should) be what you like, that way ya kinda get the fire in your belly for the project...if it's what you want or like. Any style should work with backed red oak. Just one guys opinion for whatever it might be worth............oh ya you know I like them Mollegabets, eh ;D
half eye
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Hey folks...thanks for the input so far...got me thinking.
I did forget to mention the purpose for this bow. I would like to hunt with it. I am not a tall person...5' 6" at best. And, I live in the South were the woods can be thick and the weather wet.
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SS,
You may wish to consider one of the NA styles (paddle or Pyramid) but dont go real short (stack etc.) and for hunting you may want a rigid handle especially if you shoot off a rest. Sounds just like hunting here in Michigan....deep, thick and wet.
This old man shoots 50-52# or so at 27" for my deer bows and that should not be too difficult with a bow in the 60-62" range. Like the other fellas said, get a good design, go slow and easy ....next thing ya know there's meat on the table :D
half eye
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Well, I make bend in the handle board bows. No glued on handles. They are trouble especially for the beginner. 1 3/8 in wide out to mid limb narrowing to 1/2 inch nocks will get you 45-50#. 1.5 in will get you 50-55#. There's a board bow buildalong on my site. Jawge
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/
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I was under the impression that 2 1/2" red oak board would not be wide enough to build a pyramid bow of about 60" and still be close to 50 lbs. draw weight.
If that is not true, what would be the deminsions? How many pounds could I actually get?
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i have been experimenting with trying to find the most effective design for a 50-55lb bow out of a red oak board. my latest and fastest was 55lbs at 28". 1/3/4 wide out side of the 4" handle with and 1/1/4 and 1/4 at tips. at 67"long. The speed all comes in taking your time tillering. this board was less than quality and the growth rinds traveled across at about a 75degree angle. I was able to finish the bow without having to back it. I just tried to avoid having a growth ring v out on one of the corners on the back of the bow in the working area of the limb... so if your rings are almost 90 degree then you probably wont need a backing other than for extra security. Ty
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I used almost those same dimensions on my red oak bow I made for my sinew supplier. I left the tips a little wider than yours for longevity of the bow since the guy is a wooden bow newbie. It pulls 60# at 29" and it is very fast. It is also 1.75 inches wide at the fades like yours. I think these are the best dimensions for red oak in my opinion...
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I'd suggest that you work your way into bows under 66" I have made a pile of red oak board bows all between 64" and 70" .If you rip your board to 1 3/4 you will have a scrap piece wide enough to make a child's bow. For your bow I would have limbs of equal length, a 4" long by 1 1/4 " wide handle, 2" to 2 1/2" fades, 1 3/4 wide out to 2" above the fades and then straight tapering to 1/2" tips. 68" is long enough to absorb the stresses and if you come in under weight and it is long enough to pike to get your weight back. Go slow, have fun. Look at Jawge's website.
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I agree if your goin over 50 lbs i def recomend 1/3/4+ width at the fades. Ty
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Listen to Mr. Jawge simple baord bow for the first timer. Take it easy as Red Oak if not paying attention u can dig into it and ruin with one swipe of the draw knife!!! Good luck and keep us posted!
Russ
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Half Eye, what is a paddle-bow?
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Hey Folks. What would be the results if you the red oak demensions were this: Flat-bow. 62" long NTN. 2.5" at the fads out to mid-limb. Then narrow down to the nocks of say about .5"? Would that be a terrible idea? What kind of draw weight could you get? Speed? Effeciency? Durability?
Thanks....
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SS,
here are some paddle bow pics, and the other question....draw weight on those dimensions would/could be HEAVY.
half eye
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Howdy S.S,
I've made a few Red Oak Board Bows for hunting. And, I've just reread the TBB-1.
Your question was about a 2-1/2" wide and 62" long bow. I'd say it's a bit short - it could be done, but you'll get some stacking.
What is recommended in the TBB-1 is a length of 64" to 67", and a width of about 1-7/8". But, go ahead and try 66" by 1-3/4". Keep that width until about 13" from the tips where you begin your taper to 1/2". This is a stiff handle design. So, you'll have to glue on a riser, that's no real challenge. (If you decide to go this rout, I'll walk you through the glue-up if you want. A good glue line / surface can be obtained by following a good glue-up procedure. I've never had a riser pop off for me.)
The TBB-1 is a real good read, and there is a section on stiff handle design - check it out. Also, Jawge's web site is a very valuable, informative guide. It has a number of Build-Alongs.
Good luck,
Canoe
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I posted the bow i was talkin bout with the 1/3/4 fades at 67" long. the topic is called new red oak (pics) Ty
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I have looked at some of ya'll's creations. WOW!! Beautiful pieces of work.
I have several 3/4" X 1 1/2" X 72" red oak boards that I plan to fashion according to Jawge's plans. Then I want to pursue some of the others ya'll have made.
There is something I like about the Pyramid style bow. Not sure what it is. But, I would like one. Since I have the board that is already 2 1/2" wide I might save it for such a plan. If I fashion it close to its full length then I would have room to pike it if need be...as has been mentioned.
Eventually, I would like a stout bow that I can drag through the woods and swamps of Louisiana. That is why I was thinking of a rugged, shorter bow with some strength behind it.
Anyway, if I go with a pyramid bow what kind of draw weight is realistic given the type of wood and its dimensions?
Thanks
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the bow i posted took about 1/1/2 of set with 55 lbs. which really isnt too bad cause it still has the speed. if you made a bow that was wider than mine with similar weight you could expect it to be even faster because it would have more wood(more mass) to compinsate for the set and would have a higher earlier draw weight. so... you can make a great 55 lb bow if you make it like like round 2" i would say with the same length. or make it longer(72") with the 1/3/4 at the fades. im about to experiment with a 1/1/2 x 72" long and 1/8 tips at 55lbs. i anticipate 1/1/2 to 2" of set but it might turn out pretty dang fast due to the needle tips... (hopefully ;D) ill be posting it and its comparable speed when it is finished. Ty
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One last try. LOL.Make a bend in the handle bow. Wide bows are tougher to tiller. Adding handles creates difficulties and makes tillering difficult. Handles pop off unless they are put on correctly. When you tiller the handle needs to eventually sit on top of the board and the taper of the handle must extend into the board. :) Jawge
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Ok, Jawge. :) I will do a bend in the handle bow. I have a board already set aside for the project. Also, I have read through your site and printed of the articles for me to study. Let us see what happens. I will save the wide board for later.
Thanks.....
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Good for you. I think you have increased your chances for success. Jawge
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Howdy S. S.,
Yes, I'm sure you can't go wrong with advise from Jawge. Get a few well tillered bows under your belt, and then you can do pretty much anything you want.
(But, don't ignore the stiff handled ALB for a huntin' bow ;))
Good Luck, post pic.s,
Canoe
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Canoe, what is a stiff handled ALB?
Jawge, in building a board bow bend-in-the-handle longbow, am I aiming for an elliptical tiller or circular tiller?
Thanks
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The board bow buildalong shows an elliptical tiller. That is what I recommend. If you look at the bow in that buildalong you'll see the handle barely bends. Cuts down on kick. Now you can modify the width to 1 3/8 for 45-50#. Please note there is no narrowed handle. No glue on pieces. The handle is the widest part. Yes, this is intended as a first bow. But I must say that when I pick up a board that's all I build and I've built a lot of board bows. Bend in the handle bows are actually very paleo. They've taken more game over the millennia than ANY other bow or compound. Jawge
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Thanks Jawge...and, just so I am clear...this is the one that DOES NOT have the 4" stiff section in the handle area? The lines for tillering the belly meet in the middle and run out to the tips?
Thanks
(this is not what I am looking for...correct?)
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Howdy S. S.,
A "stiff handled ALB" is the bow I described earlier. ALB is "American Long Bow." The ALB is different from the ELB (English Long Bow) in that an American white wood (oak, ash, Hickory...) is used which requires a wider bow than the traditional ELB made of yew.
For the type of bow you are building, there are a few Build-Alongs that have pictures and guides - look for then in the Build-Along section of this site.
Here is a real nice Build-Along, but it's for a stiff handled bow, check it out anyway...
http://poorfolkbows.com/oak.htm
Good Luck,
Canoe