Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: mox1968 on February 07, 2010, 09:28:21 am
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i know its supposed to be hide glue but would tb3 work for sinewing the back of a bow and if so would it be a waterproof finish??
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I have used TB2, worked OK but wasn't completely waterproof.
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I have used it with ok results. It is water pruff but does not shrink when drying as with hide glue to add additional reflex. kenneth
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I used TBIII, with mixed results, I'd say thin it with some water...it gets a bit sticky & damn messy.
The bow snapped on the tiller rig and the sinew looked slightly dry.
(http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp195/Del_the_Cat/bow11.jpg)
It was prob poor workmanship and insufficient sinew (two thin layer if I recall), but when I get to do another sinew backed bow I shall use hide glue as I feel it will be easier to work with as it can be softened/thinned/reworked more easilly.
BTW If anyone is looking for a thermostatically controlled glue pot, I bought a 1L Mini Deep Fryer...very cheap (£11.99) and works beautifully.
Del
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TB3 will not maximize the performance of the sinew. If you want to sinew but don't have hide glue, go to your local Wally World and buy some Knox Gelatin.............mix it, heat it, and you have a refined hide glue.
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I've heard good reviews for using it to apply snakeskin or rawhide over a conventional sinew job.
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BTW If anyone is looking for a thermostatically controlled glue pot, I bought a 1L Mini Deep Fryer...very cheap (£11.99) and works beautifully.
What a great idea - thank you! ;D
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Did you moisten your sinew in warm water before soaking it in TB and applying? Try that, and take note of the result.
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On my sinew backed bow "Elkie" I used two layers of sinew hide glue and the third I put down with TBIII for the waterproofing properties. I added snake skin over that using TBIII and a thin coat of TBIII over the skin. Then a few coats of Tru-Oil and satin poly spray over the Tru-Oil only to cut the shine.
The sinew, hide glue lifted at one tip after many shots so I cleaned under it and used TBIII for the repair and it held well. I gave the bow to Kenneth(Little John) and the sinew lifted again in another spot but I'm not sure if or how he may have fixed it.
My next sinewed bows will all be done with hide glue but I may still use TBIII for moisture prorection over the sinew.
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TB isn't truly water proof. They use the term very loosely. It is very water resistant. You are going to wind up sealing the bow anyway to protect the sinew and the wood. So why not get the most out of the sinew by using hide glue or Knox gelatin, then after it is fully cured seal the bow.
Another thing to think about is by applying with a water resistant, or even worse a water proof glue, how is the sinew going to fully cure. If the outside of the glue dries before all the moisture has left the sinew, it could take a really long time to fully cure.
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BTW If anyone is looking for a thermostatically controlled glue pot, I bought a 1L Mini Deep Fryer...very cheap (£11.99) and works beautifully.
What a great idea - thank you! ;D
Been using this Mini Crock Pot for Years...keeps glue at 140-145 degrees all day long.......
And in My Off The Wall way of Thinking....If You are going to spend this many Hours Planning and processing Sinew...why cut the Corner and use anything else Besides what makes the best of the Sinew?? I would not waste my Time with TB3...I love the Stuff....but not for a time consuming Sinew Job...just to be faster....but reap less Benefits in the end....JMO
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true after all that rippin and stripping its got to be hide glue,thanks you have made my decision for me.
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I like that crock pot idea. My wife just volunteered her mini crock pot. That is a much easier than my hotplate, double boiler configuration.
El D- does yours have temp settings or is it on/off only.
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Rick...the one I have only Heats to 140 degrees...which is about perfect for Hide Glue
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Rick...the one I have only Heats to 140 degrees...which is about perfect for Hide Glue
Cool deal, it sounds like the one I just liberated from my wife. I have a sinew job pretty soon and this will be a much simpler set up.
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Yep...and when I am done...it's off to the Refrigerator ...if only a Week or so between Jobs...or the Deep Freeze with it....just the way it is...really Handy....... :P
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go to the asain food market and get you some fish bladders uncooked,boil them down and make some of the best glue there is for sinew backed bows..degrease the sinew with acetone right before you dip in the glue ..also degrease the bow for the best results..i havent had one lift the sinew using the method yet ..ive got several bows in different stages.. as soon as i can i will post some pics ....james
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James, how many fish bladders for enough glue for a 60" bow with 3 layers of sinew?
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best thing about hide glue, is you can throw all your sinew scraps in and boil it down to more glue.
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Knox gelatin works really well for hide glue. I have used it in sinew backing and it works really well. I use one packet to about a half cup water. I also use one of the mini crock pots (little dipper) for my glue pot and it works great. One thing I did find out on sinew backing is not to get your sinew too warm in your soaking pot. It turns the sinew into rubber bands and is hard for me to get it to lay down like I want. How long are some people letting their sinew cure on the bow? I really enjoy these discussions
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pat the fish bladders usually come packaged.. most look like and are the size of large chiccarones or large pork rinds ,,sometimes the uncooked ones are very hard to find here in the usa.. 2 large bladders will be enogh to size the bow back several times,,as far as the amount for the sinew,,for me it depends on several factors..the amount of sinew,number of courses, and the coarseness of the sinew,and whether its back or leg tendons.. james
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James
You suggested to clean the sinew with acetone. Do you dip it or just wipe the bundle off in an acetone soaked rag? I've only sinewed one bow (cedar) and degreased it with Acetone, would you suggest the same for Osage?
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yes dip the sinew bundles prior to dipping in glue.
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James, I'll see if I can find some first. If I can I will boil them(?) and play with what I get to see how it is. Do you have another source of good hide glue for a simple osage recurve or straight limb bow (60" or less)with 2 or 3 courses of leg or back sinew? I have both.
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Most thrift stores have a crock pot or two for sale. I bought one for my last sinew job, cost $2 at a Salvation Army thrift store.
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great idea about the crock pot. I already have one too. I think I might get going on a sinew job soon. Would tb3 be ok for rawhide? It doesn't have the same properties as sinew. Just curious.
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Pat...email Keith (you know the wannabe Yooper)....oh......Islandpiper....he has some of the Best Luthiers Hide Glue I have ever used....really quality stuff......
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I just did my first sinew job. I used the knox gelatin. It worked great and was super easy and cheap. I used the bottom of a broken coffee pot for the heat source. I just put the glue in a bowl and set it on the heating pad. It was the perfect temp. It was hot, but not hot enough to burn my fingers. I also used acetone on the bow, but did not use it on the sinew.
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Does the acetone change the handling properties of the sinew at all? I've noticed in the past that leather forms easier if wet with alcohol instead of water.
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acetone will not change the sinew,it will remove a large percentage of any oils or grease that may be in or on the fibers.after a couple of dips in the acetone the sinew will have a clean and crisp feel, the acetone will evaporate almost immediately.once dipped in the glue, the fibers will become loose and suple
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James...do you soak the Sinew in Warm Water to soften it before the Acetone Bath just like you would normally do before soaking it in Hde Glue??
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Interesting process there James...Do tell!
Never thought about de-greasing the bundles before.
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yes i forgot to mention you have to soke in warm water first,,sqeeze out all the water you can before putting the bundle in the acetone....ill be putting on the next layer of sinew ,on two bows this weekend ill post some pics..james
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Thanks Michael. I'll drop him a line.
James, will you be using fish bladder glue on the bows you are working on or hide glue?
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I'm thinking that the acetone dip, as well as degreasing, takes all the excess moisture out of the sinew prior to dipping. We used acetone in chem lab to quick dry test tubes, after washing; it mixes with the water and carries it off, leaving so little behind that the tubes were dry in seconds. It's likely that the only water left on the sinew is that which is chemically bonded to to the protein.
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It's probably best to get Acetone that isn't "recovered" if you're going to do this. Personally I find that washing sinew with good degreasing soap is more than adequate.