Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Badger on February 02, 2010, 04:01:21 pm
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Curious as to what method if any the different guys have here of roughing out a stave just prior to first brace. Especially working with character staves and whood-de-doos. Something I started doing a few years back that I think helps is running a growth ring on the belly as well as the back. Not as careful on the belly naturally but I find if I just chase one ring after another until I get a slight flex in the bow I have it pretty well oriented and in a good position to start the tillering process. Steve
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pretty good idea Steve. I use my drawknife held at 90 degrees and pay real close attention to my thickness as I go. Usually I scrape the high spots and then bend against the floor often.. Sometimes I run it across my belt sander as I go too. just depends really. :) -josh
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I use the "taper tillering" method on everything Steve. I apply my side/belly taper to the appropriate design and this eliminates the need for flooring tillering. The limb bending stage (floor tillering) is just to judge limb strength/bending suitable for even tiller at first brace height (on the tillering tree/board). Pre-tapering, at this point, has already produced the bend I'm after. Maintaining "equal limb mass" also helps to achieve even limb strain at first brace. After that, it's pretty much removing wood the length of the limb for weight reduction. ART
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Hatchet, draw knife, and surform to floor tiller and long string tiller. Once I brace it is push knife used as a scraper. I am removing wood from the belly until the final stages of tiller when I may remove wood from the width to bring the tiller in. Jawge
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I draw lines out on the sides/back and just hack at it with hatchet, drawknife, and ferriers rasp :-X. Understandably, it takes me a long time to get them looking nice after that :D
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I do the same as Kegan. I was working on an Elm chunk last night. Geez that stuff is tuff ! It's got to be the tuffest wood out there !
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what ive done so far on my oak board bow, i used a jig saw to cut out the outline i drew on the back of the bow. then drew my initial taper on the belly and used the jigsaw as far as i could. saved lots of time that way.. not very primitive i know, but saves time! ;D
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draw knife rasp. thats it. i made 1 bow with 1 growth ring on back and belly allmost perfect tiller from the get go.
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On thing I've learned with using a bandsaw is; if the stave has twist - obviously you cant just slice straight through or on side will be thinner than the other. So I angle the stave and take thin strips off the sides, then watch the blade as it cuts through the remaining higher section of wood in the center.
That and don't use the bandsaw if I've drank too much coffee. ;D
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That and don't use the bandsaw if I've drank too much coffee. ;D
...or adult beverages... :-\
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I'm in the ax, drawknife and wood rasp school. Oh, and the 12" disk sander. ;)
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Draw Knife...then either my Surform...or the Trusty Ferriers Rasp....then a Scraper made by Shannon to smooth it all up.Sandpaper is for Girls......... ;D
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blockplane spokeshave drawknife scraper i draw lines from center out to tips and take it down with my blockplane then taper it down then i start scraping.
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I'm in the process of roughing out 2 right now. First I cut the profile with the bandsaw leaving it a bit wider than the lines. Then cut it out for thinckness with the band saw. All pretty much the same limb thickness but thicker in the handle. After it's all bandsawed I rasp and scrape to the lines for the profile and mark out the limb thickness taper and rasp and scrape to those marks. Then floor tiller.
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axe, really sharp drawknife, farriers rasp, knife/scraper
i like to hack the basic shape- including a little width taper- with the axe (usually when i harvest the stave so it'll dry faster- there might be some tying down to reduce twist, too), then clean it up with a drawknife. i try to do alot of the thickness taper with the drawknife, too, but usually end up doing most of that with the farriers rasp- kinda depends on how many knots there are. the rasp does a great job when there aren't too many undulations. if there are, i spend alot more time scraping. i check the flow of the taper with my fingers every time i remove any wood. once it starts to feel like a bow, i start floor tillering. on sapling bows, i find that i don't need to worry about the width taper much at all. by the time the floor tiller is close the tips are usually fairly equal. my usual pattern goes like this:
hack, scrape, drawknife, scrape, rasp, scrape- i pretty much scrape after everything to clean it up for a more accurate feel. i don't usually sand it until i after i'm done with the long string.
i like this thread- very educational!
Rob
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I'm in the process of roughing out 2 right now. First I cut the profile with the bandsaw leaving it a bit wider than the lines. Then cut it out for thinckness with the band saw. All pretty much the same limb thickness but thicker in the handle. After it's all bandsawed I rasp and scrape to the lines for the profile and mark out the limb thickness taper and rasp and scrape to those marks. Then floor tiller.
Pretty much the same as me.....
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Normal method: Rough out a stave, ;D see something else that I like better, :o go to that one, mess it up as well, >:( then move to another, play with it till I get bored, :-\then go back to the first one and try to figure out how I could have possibly seen a bow in that piece of wood, ???and wonder why I cut it and shaped it the way that I did. >:(Get frustrated put it down and sort through the pile some more,split a few more logs, trim them up on the saw, >:D decide that I better burn some of the scraps. O:) realize my back is aching, :-[ shut the shop for the day. :(Go back out to the shop a week later and wonder who in tarnations cut up my logs and start questioning my son because I know that certainly I could not have made such poor decisions. ::)
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Yep...I know the feeling....... :P .....The ADHD Bow Making Syndrome
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If I use a bandsaw I do it similar to Parnells method, I draw a line down the growth ring on each side of the stave and hold the bow on an angle to just trim it down that line, I do it on both sides then clean up the middle, from that point I use the draw knife to isolate one ring on the belly. If the growth rings are thin I just get all the v's pointing toward the tips. Steve
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I draw out the profile on the back and cut it out with a band saw close to the lines,then use a carpenters line down the side a little thicker than I think I will need,this will follow the contour of the back then cut it out on a band saw being sure to keep it at an angle so the line you can't see is away from the blade.This will leave a V ridge down the center of the belly.Then a farriers rasp
and scraper from there on. Maybe a 49/50 Nicolas file to rough up where I plan on scraping while tillering. :)
Pappy
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I use a heavy survival type knife as a hatchet would be used then save edge hoof rasp draw knife and scraper made from an old beat up draw knife.
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Aside from the whoopdie doos, going around knots, and straightening things, etc., the dimesions of a given design and desired weight always seem to end up pretty close to the last one ya did, so you may as well get close from the get go, huh? Your going to remove that wood at some point anyway. I go from drawknife and/or band saw to farrier's rasp (an often overlooked and underappreciated tool) to rough out the bow to floor tiller, then take the usual facted tillering approach with scrapers, rasps and bowyer's edge tool. I have always used Dean's tillering method, because that's what I learned when I started out. It works, and it's pretty predictable. I just imagine I'm making a 90# bow before going to long string, so it's bending fairly decent, just heavy for now.
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To start I draw out the Outlines on the back, then I start hacking at it with a sharp hatchet. When I get tired of that I start hacking on the belly. Eventually getting some shape I use a drawknife and a rasp for a little more control. Once I get is bending a little I will mostly use the rasp from this point until it is time to long string. Then I will use my trusty old case knife as a scraper for final tillering and rounding the edges. Seems to work good for me. ;D ;D
Tell
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I probably didn't pose my question right. The thing I was wondering about was not so much how you got to the point of a roughed out stave but where you wanted that stave to be just prior to starting the tillering process. Steve
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i get it bending against the floor pretty good before it ever even sees a string... I floor tiller with a mirror sometimes too. :)
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after floor tillering until everything is bending, i make sure it's fairly smooth & the tapers feel right before i string it. i've been doing more and more work on bows before stringing lately & it seems to be a good habit for me. the last one took very little scraping once i had a string on it. of course, the one before that blew up at 24"......
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That's kinda what I meant when I was talking about taking it to what looks like a 90# bow to me.
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OK, will try again on my part. This is what Comstock wrote in his book "The Bent Stick". "Good tapering produces good tillering". I reckon my tillering process begins with laying out my limb taper, back and sides, and roughing that out. So I just apply my taper to the stave/board, cut it out, and I have the limb bending properly (or there abouts). It's weight is going to be heavy at this point, so I get the limbs bending the same amount/suitable weight in preporation for the long or short string. Once even tiller is achieved at brace height it's pretty much just weight reduction to final draw.
Comstock also wrote that a consistant taper from handle to tip produces the most durable bow. Words to live by for us bow builders! ART
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I probably didn't pose my question right. The thing I was wondering about was not so much how you got to the point of a roughed out stave but where you wanted that stave to be just prior to starting the tillering process. Steve
I begin the tillering process when I feel the bow is about 25# or so over my intended draw weight. That is, 25# over or so when finished floor tillering. Then I go to a tillering stick with a really long tillering string. At this point I'm trying to get the bow to a "brace height" of about 4" and getting it to look nice and even with no flat spots. Then to the tillering tree.
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I get it floor tillered,still pretty stiff but bending even ,and both limbs feeling the same.Then I go to the tiller stick with a string just long enough to go from tip to tip.I work it down the stick an inch at a time working out the stiff spots and staying off the ones that are bending to much till I get the tips out to about 6/8 inches.Another trick as you move down the tiller stick is stretch a string across
from tip to tip and looks like the bow is at low brace.I get it braced as soon as I can and go to the tiller tree. :)
Pappy
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" I probably didn't pose my question right. The thing I was wondering about was not so much how you got to the point of a roughed out stave but where you wanted that stave to be just prior to starting the tillering process. Steve"
Oh, LOL, I was wondering why you cared about my wood reduction methods. You know how I determine the stave's readiness for the short string. LOL. I long string tiller out to 10 inches making sure the limbs are bending evenly and well. I keep long string tillering until I get the stave at that 10 inches of string movement (not tip movement) and around 5# over my target weight. That puts me at 10-15# over target when I string'er up. Plenty of tillering room to make weight. This is for my 26 in draw. Floor tillering and then slapping on the short string resulted in many breaks during my early days. So coax and cajole the stave from long string to final tillering. Heck I don't even pull to full target weight until 25 inches. Jawge
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Art, i think your method might be similar to mine, I chase down a growth ring on the belly just to get the orientation of my imb set and then I go ahead and taper it down by getting the V's all running the right direction. I pretty much quit using the long string if I am building a weight and style I am real familar with, I just floor tiller until it is ready to brace, that will usually put me within about 10# of finishing.
I watched Tim Baker one time split the back off of an osage stave, instead of chasing a growth ring by using a bunch of small wedges pounded in every few inches along the same growth ring. I went home and tried it both on the back and the belly and it worked like a champ. Have to cut down to the right ring on both sides of the handle before splitting of course. Steve
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No, I think our methods are quite different Steve. I'm appling a taper to my limbs as I cut/rough "em out. I use predetermine dimemsions to get my limbs bending. For example, 5/8" limb thickness outside the fades to 1/2" mid-limb and then carry that dimension on to the tip. That would be for a rectangular limb design. For a straight profile stave, that would give me a somewhat elliptical tiller suitable for my shorter draw. Of course, I still watch the growth rings, feel the wood and sight my work for any trouble spots. But all in all, my limbs are bending the way I want before the tips ever hit the floor. Here's a pic............ART
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I watched Tim Baker one time split the back off of an osage stave, instead of chasing a growth ring by using a bunch of small wedges pounded in every few inches along the same growth ring. I went home and tried it both on the back and the belly and it worked like a champ. Have to cut down to the right ring on both sides of the handle before splitting of course. Steve
Now thats a great idea. Does anyone else do this?
I reminded myself the hard way the other day of why we angle our cuts to avoid cutting one side thin. I ruined an elm stave that was about the nicest stave you could dream of and it was perfectly dry and ready to be a bow. it was really straight with no knots and no twist. Had a nice flat back and an even natural reflex on both limbs. I got too confident on the bandsaw and next thing I know one side is thin and its wrecked >:( I knew better. I proceeded to cut the messed up limb into little pieces ;D I plan to make a nice takedown or spliced handle bow with the rest.