Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: barebo on January 18, 2010, 09:21:02 am
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Not sure what the greater evil was here.... using the last of the bottle of Tru Oil after I broke the film, or not preparing the Ipe better ??? I just finished my Ash backed Ipe, and couldn't wait to get some pics up, but wanted to get a finish on it before doing the handle wrap, etc. The Ash seems to have dried pretty well, but the Ipe is still very tacky. My question is this: if I just leave it alone, will it eventually harden / cure ?? The bow came out really nice for my first attempt with Ipe, especially since I made the Ash backing from the back of a stave, and it is really irregular, having 2 to 3 rings making it less than uniform along it's length. It made for some challenging tiller!! SO...........what should I do about the "sticky" Tru Oil ???
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Ive had them stay sticky for a week or better.. Try and put it in a warm place with air movement.. not hot!! just warm..
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you can wait for it to dry, which may be a while(ipe is very oily), or wipe off the tru oil with acetone and start over. on oily woods i use superglue first. two tubes of the cheap dollar for a pack of 4 kind will do one coat on a whole bow. once dry rub it wilth steel wool and then use your tru oil. to apply the super glue i put a plastic baggie over my finger and just rub it on. And don't blow on it to help it dry, moisture from your breath will turn it cloudy.
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on some cherry it was tacky for a while for me too. I let it dry for 12 hours stood up against a table inside and it was fine after that. Im guessing and i would put money on the fact that cold has something to do with this. so yes, i think it will eventually harden and cure, but keep it some where warm.
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also Deft laquer will dry on just about anything although its not as tough. you can put tru oil or spar urethane over that to.
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There are very few things that will stick to ipe. It's like trying to put a finish on a teflon frying pan.
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Doesn't the super glue have a tendency to stiffen thins up a bit, or is it basically a primer ?? If the Tru Oil will harden, I can be patient and let it sit for a week or so. Killer is, that there's no runs or sags - and the Ash back is fine. Being my first time with Ipe, I guess it's a learning curve. I've got Ipe for 5 more bows, and hopefully will make each one a bit better ??!! Strange but beautiful wood.
I just roughed out a White Ash Flatbow, and have some Hard Maple split, so I can feed the addiction waiting for the finish to cure.
I'll put it in front of my pellet stove for a few days - that's where I kind of "speed up" drying staves. Works well.
Thanks for the input - much appreciated as always !!
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its true its not the most flexible thats why i cover it with Spar Urethane. No problems with cracking yet. Although the 2 bows i have used it on are long and not shot in a bunch. This is a technique i use on oily wood risers on bows made from "modern materials" (shhh, don't tell anyone) ::)
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This one is long too - 70" NTN, and draws high 60#'s at about 27". I NEED it to DRY so I can get some pics up !!!
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Remove the existing finish with acetone and then apply a base coat of either superglue or shellac. After that, you can apply any finish you want.
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Agree ^
Shellac dries in 30 seconds or faster when I use on ipe.
After I can sand and put on other finish no problem.
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This thread is proof that I would rather be lucky than good. I don't give my ipe any special treatment, and have never had a problem with a finish. I wonder if the super dry climate helps. Try putting your Ipe in a hot box and getting it warm then applying the finish. Warm wood helps when applying most any finish or stain.
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on mine I used true oil for the finish but i also wiped it down with acetone 3 times beforehand. I did a knife handle with ipe one time and used tru oil to finish it and around 4 months ago without using the acetone to degrease it first and i think that thing is STILL sticky. :( So yeah, now I just degrease with acetone before finishing now. It also helps to pull the dust out of the grain for me when I use it too so win-win. ;) -josh
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Here's my "drying solution" - I'll let it stay here for a few days - if it seems to work, I'll wait befor I do any more with it. I'd hate to have to attempt stripping it .
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I now routinely put a primer coat of shellac on all my bows that are not dyed (shellac will cause alcohol based dyes to run). I started doing that after my shop was contaminated with silicone and I could not keep a finish on my bows no matter what I did. Shellac solved the problem as it will seal just about any contanimate including silicone, oily wood and greasy finger smudges.
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In retrospect, i'm wondering if the fact that I used a standard Minwax stain has anything to do with it?? I generally use a Feibings alcohol leather dye, but have only a very dark Mahagony. I wanted to keep the light / dark contrast. Is shellac a good finish by itself??
I have no experience with it at all. Again, I thank everyone for the input !!!
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This thread is proof that I would rather be lucky than good. I don't give my ipe any special treatment, and have never had a problem with a finish. I wonder if the super dry climate helps. Try putting your Ipe in a hot box and getting it warm then applying the finish. Warm wood helps when applying most any finish or stain.
I'm thinking the super dry climate Justin because I haven't had any problems with Tru-Oil on Ipe either.
Nate
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The humid regions have problems with finishes on Ipe and oily woods in general, and why I like using mineral oil as a base coat since it will dry on oily Ipe and then you can use anything you want over it. When you rub it down good with a clean cloth after rubbing it in with your hands then its dry and you can add apply what you want with much better results...
Plus it looks real good by itself especially if you are going hunting ;)..
or use 3 coats of acetone first like Josh mentions...
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I wasn't aware that mineral oil would dry and take a finish like that - just learned something !!! I know that mineral Spirits are used to cut and clean paint, etc. I have noticed that my fingertips have taken on a reddish cast, and the mask I wore while sanding is fairly reddish-orange also. I assume that the oil leaches out as you work it?? I know that the board was 6 /8% MC. So very different than all of my Northeastern hardwoods !! I know one thing for sure - it sure casts an arrow !!!!!
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I wiped my last one down with lacquer thinner to get the dust off of it and then applied a very thin coat, it was dry in a couple of hours. Added a couple of more thin coats the following day. No problem here in humid SW FL. I suggest using several thin coats instead of one or two heavier coats. Mileage may vary...
Swamp
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I have another solution which worked well on my last bow. Simply give the sticky bow a once over wipe with white spirit , wait half a day, then repeat,and maybe you'll have to do it once more, but it worked for me. I was told this by a technical adviser of a varnish making company here in uk
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knightd advised putting it in a warm place, hence in front of my pellet stove as pictured. I checked it when I got home today , and by golly, it's starting to dry!!! Still a bit tacky, but leaps and bounds better than I'd imagined it'd be. I'm going to take Gordon at his advice, and get some shellac for the next one(s)!!!
I've used Tru Oil with great success on my last 6-7 whitewood bows. Like I said, this Ipe is in a different category for sure!!!
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I live in Florida also. I wipe mine down with acetone and then use a spray Shellac. It dries fast even in this humidity. You can even go over it with Poly after you spray it with Shellac if you want to.
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Acetone has been suggested a LOT !!!! Looks like I might have to get some !!!
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And if you breath deep enough your whole outlook on life is just sooo much more positive. You can get downright giddy! Seriously, acetone, toluene, lacquer thinner, and the like all make great tools, but use them outside and be up wind. The stuff is nasty bad for you. Fact of the matter is skin contact is not a good thing either, try to wear rubber gloves. I admit I'm kinda bad about that one these day. Used to use lacquer thinner a lot and I did use the gloves then. Like everything, respect the tool or it will bite you. I tend wipe all of my wood surfaces down before gluing or finishing, cheap insurance.
Swamp
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Good points Swamp Bow, and another reason why I like mineral oil is you can actually drink it. Of course that is only recommended if you are constipated :o ;D
If you are into having a truly primitive or "paleo" bow, and don't have any bear fat, or you are out of elbow grease this is natural enough.
With the growing number of youngsters making bows these messages about being safe around these solvents and finishes is paramount. Especially this time of the year when most everyone is working indoors..
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If I'm going to apply a primer coat of Shellac I don't bother with acetone (I hate the stuff, it gives me a headache). Shellac will let you get away with a lot because it sticks to just about anything. If I am concerned about contaminants, I'll rub the bow down with alcohol which is a lot less toxic than the some of the other solvents.
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Haven't noticed that so much with acetone, though it definitely isn't good for you, but with laquer thinner it's definitely the case. I used it to smooth silicone caulking in a tiled shower once, and walked out of the bath stumbling drunk. Good thing I was young and still had some brain cells to spare. I started playing with boiled soybean oil as a finish base, with promising results. On top of being non toxic, my wife no longer complains about the linseed oil stench permeating the house. Now it just smellls like someone's making french fries. ;D
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Jude,
Do you boil the oil yourself or buy it boiled (where?) and I assume that it does not go rancid like some oils. I know I have used Walnut Oil for finishing cutting boards and salad bowls because it does not go rancid, smells nice, and isn't toxic. I wonder if it would work as well for a finishing agent for bows.
I just love how a thread posting from someone in trouble can both help the original poster and disseminate such a large and varied amount of information. Thanks all.
Mike
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Mike, Hopefully, that's what seperates this site from the others. Lot's of bow building knowledge here. :)
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I boil the soybean oil myself. I just pour a whole bottle into a large pot, open the doors and windows, make sure the fire extinguisher is handy just in case, and heat it till it smokes. I got the idea partly from seasoning cast iron pots; if you lay the oil on heavy, and bake at 400 deg for an hour, the pot comes out with a coat of varnish. Then I learned that most of the printing ink in use today is soy based as well. Soybean polymerizes when heated, just like linseed. Other non-spoiling oils like walnut and olive work, as does animal fat, but they don't dry to a varnish. Soybean will go rancid if exposed to air for long periods, but the fact that the boiled stuff dries, keeps that from being a problem. Incidently, I set it with a heat gun after I rub it in, just like I do linseed, otherwise, theres a lot of hand rubbing involved to generate the heat needed to set it. One day I'll try it with a setting agent and see how that works. I currently use a paste of boiled soybean and beeswax as a periodic top coat for just about everything, wood, leather, steel etc.
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Walnut oil is used in cooking and salads so like mineral oil is both safe and consumable..probably tastes better than mineral oil ;D,and I bet looks looks about the same when applied.
I was told tonight that grape seed oil is becoming another popular finish.
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Man ...I bet ya gotta kill a bunch of Grapes for that there Oil....... >:D...and who says that Linseed Oil stinks..... ???...... I love the Smell of it...and love setting it with just my Bare Hands...and a lot of rubbing too...maybe I am messed up...but I never thought that Linseed Oil stunk.....JMO
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Well...........on a positive note, the Ipe belly has finally dried well, and the grip area should be ready for it's wrap by tomorrow !!
Million dollar question for me now is: do I want to risk putting an additional coat on to bring out more lustre, or is it sealed well enough, and should I call it good ?? If the base coat has hardened off, and I reapply more Tru Oil, will the remaining oils leach out and attack the "new" coat. I'll try for pics tomorrow.
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Once the first layer is dry...you should have no trouble with additional coats.....JMO