Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: huntersteve on January 11, 2010, 02:13:06 pm

Title: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: huntersteve on January 11, 2010, 02:13:06 pm
alright guy's....I've started working on a Hickory self bow.......it has a very large knot with a pin hole all the way through it....I have the stave worked down to where it's bending about 4-6 inches.....what I need help with is how to proceed from where I'm at....how to deal with this knot....I tried to follow the grain and leave plenty of wood around the knot....I'll try to post some pics....thanks for any and all help...Steve

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Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: huntersteve on January 11, 2010, 02:15:30 pm
a couple more pics....

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Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: huntersteve on January 11, 2010, 04:07:10 pm
Here are some close-ups of the knot.....

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Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: artcher1 on January 11, 2010, 05:41:50 pm
If that's worm damage I'm seeing in your last pic then you should just move on to another stave. ART
Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: billy on January 11, 2010, 05:59:09 pm
awww...screw that knot dude.  Hickory is some damn tough wood.  Just tiller it carefully and slowly.  It should be fine.  I have a hcikory bow I made with a similar knot (though not as large as yours).  And it's fine.  I can shoot the hell outta that bow with no problem.  Now make a damn bow out of it!!! 
Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: El Destructo on January 11, 2010, 06:17:21 pm
Steve ...in the Last Picture that You posted ...there are some tracks in the Wood...are these Bug Damage...or is this just the texture of the wood? If that is the Wood violated by either Bugs or tools....I would Nix this Piece of Hickory...but id this is Natural Grainage....then don't let that Knot scare You...looks like plenty of Meat around it...so go slow and tiller this Puppy out to a Badassed Bow...and remember ...more Pictures!!
Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: huntersteve on January 11, 2010, 07:29:32 pm
I think the "tracks" your talking about were made by me....tool mark...I lost 10 oyher staves out of this group because of insect damage...only saved this one and 2 others....are the tool marks going to spell the end to this stave...that would really stink.....I think I'll try to tiller it anyway for the practice......it's really stiff in the knot area...do I remove wood from the belly of the knot?? Any and all guidance here will be appreciated...thanks...Steve
Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: El Destructo on January 11, 2010, 07:47:42 pm
If this is gouges and tool marks going through the back of the Bow...yeah...I would either throw it out...or back it with at least Silk...more like Sinew to protect it and keep it from Failing....JMO

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Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: akila on January 11, 2010, 07:55:50 pm
HI,,,to be onest i wouldn think aboute that tool mark to  much.....iff its not to deep, i think it should be fine... that area will be stiffer aniway, so i dont think it should be a problem.....the know u should leave it alone on the back.....just tiller the bow on the belly.....and dont aspect  the limb to bend to much on that  knot area...that zone will be a little stiffer thenn the rest of the limb.....i would  put that limb with the knot in it, to be the lower limb ...this way u can make that limb a little stiffer....its just my opinion....good luck with that..
Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: artcher1 on January 11, 2010, 08:19:19 pm
Even if those aren't worm tracks your wood looks dull, dry and pithy. Pretty much what you would expect to see in wood that's deteriorated. Have you any scraps lying around to do a bend test on? ART
Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: huntersteve on January 11, 2010, 10:11:14 pm
thanks for all the responses.....I had already planned to put the knot on the lower limb.....i think I'll keep working on the tiller just to see if it's capable of making a bow....I hate the thoughts of just tossing it out without at least trying.....Time will tell....thanks again...Steve
Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: Roger on January 11, 2010, 10:56:47 pm
Prolly got huge rings....sand paper is your friend...

R.
Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: Pappy on January 12, 2010, 06:56:43 am
Go for it,just leave that area a little stiff like others have said and it should be fine,Hickory is tough as lone as it was kept in the dry while curring and isn't dry rotted. :) That is a mighty big knot so you won't want to to bend right through that area much at all,Just get some weight off of it but leave it thick enough not to bend.Good luck.
   Pappy
Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: huntersteve on January 12, 2010, 07:18:22 am
This will be a whole different ballgame for me....so used to trying to keep both limbs bending evenly on all the other bows i've built...and now having to tiller a bow where you know there will be stiff spots that you have to leave....I'll post more pics as it goes....thanks...Steve
Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: Pappy on January 12, 2010, 07:36:31 am
Just get it bending a little before the knot and just passed the knot and it won't be that bad.
Be careful not to get a hinge in those 2 spots,kind of like coming out of the fads.  :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: huntersteve on January 12, 2010, 07:46:17 am
Thanks Pappy for the help....I plan on working on it some more today.....Steve
Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: George Tsoukalas on January 12, 2010, 10:29:28 am
What Pappy said and let me add this- put some wood glue on the hole and fill it with sawdust. After it dries add some super glue to the rest of the glue. Remember what he said about how you tiller the knot. Don't go crazy adding reflex either. I noticed the stave was reflexed. It's already got a weak spot more reflex will make it weaker. Jawge
Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: huntersteve on January 12, 2010, 12:40:30 pm
Thanks George...will do my best to follow what you guy's have told me....Steve
Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: George Tsoukalas on January 12, 2010, 04:42:35 pm
I meant superglue the rest of the knot. :) Jawge
Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: Keenan on January 12, 2010, 05:44:52 pm
Exactly what Pappy and Jawge said super glue in the not with some fine sawdust and as Pappy said take of as much weight without that area bending. The weight will rob performance but I love character anyway.
In the pic (169) (looking down on it)  It shows a fair amount of width and some sharp transitions right there. You will want to lose a little of the width and blend in the transitions much more gradual. Not enough that you cut into the know itself but enough the feather that edge. The reason is that with the bugle out to the side you may cause a runoff shear where your extra material blends in.  Hope that makes sense.
Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: huntersteve on January 12, 2010, 07:24:14 pm
started with the long string....worked on the tiller some more today.... 4 inches of bend in the pics....I filled the knot holes with super glue and sawdust.... here are some pics.....

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Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: Pappy on January 13, 2010, 06:39:23 am
Man that is looking good so far,sleek,nice job,just go slow and get everything bending even.It should make a fine bow. :)
     Pappy
Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: huntersteve on January 13, 2010, 09:14:29 am
Thanks Pappy...I'm trying to really take my time with this one.....at what point do you think I can go to a low brace....Steve
Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: Pappy on January 13, 2010, 10:13:40 am
When you get the tips moving 6 or 8 inches.A little trick I use when on the tiller stick is when I have it pulled down,I take a string and run it tip to tip across the bow and you can see how it is looking better.It looks like a low brace ,but not. :) It really helps you see what the whole limb looks like. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: huntersteve on January 13, 2010, 10:33:42 am
That's a great idea....i'll give it a try later today when I work on it some more...Thanks...Steve
Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: huntersteve on January 14, 2010, 10:22:41 am
well I worked on Ole Knotty some more...so far so good....here's a pic.....

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Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: huntersteve on January 14, 2010, 10:28:37 am
But then......this is what happens when you get carried away with a scraper....now I have a bad hinge between the Knot and limb tip....any ideas on this are welcome....I was trying to get the limb bending more,closer to the knot....bad judgement on where to scrape on my part....Steve

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Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: Pappy on January 14, 2010, 10:35:16 am
The right limb was looking pretty good, To be honest I doubt you can do much with the left.You may try and get it bending between the far and knot and relieve some of the pressure off the end but I feel sure you will loose a ton of weight to get that hinge out. Sorry I can help you more. I
know how bad you wanted to make this work but if it was me I would mark it up to experience and move to another stave.  :(
   Pappy
Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: huntersteve on January 14, 2010, 10:55:57 am
That's what I was afraid of.....thanks for your help Pappy.....now....on to my next victim.....lesson learned....hopefully.......Steve
Title: Re: Hickory Self Bow...with a knotty character
Post by: El Destructo on January 14, 2010, 09:51:12 pm
                                         Hate to Say it......................so I won't............. :P

                                         But now you have some good Kindling for firestarer

                          Like they all say....If Ya aint Breakin Em............Ya Anit Makin Em......... ;D