Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Gordon on November 27, 2009, 09:12:07 pm

Title: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Gordon on November 27, 2009, 09:12:07 pm
Here are some pictures of a bow that I was originally building for a friend. He wanted something in the 80-90 lbs range at 29”. I had it tillered nicely at 85# when I noticed some stress fractures developing in the handle overlay. Upon examining the problem area I concluded that I had made the throat too narrow and there was nothing I could do to fix it. So I replaced the damaged handle and reduced the weight to what I thought the design could bear. This was my third attempt to make a heavy Boo-backed bow for my friend, but I think I got the bugs worked out now and I’m hopeful that I will find success on my next attempt.

The bow is 68” ntn, weighs in at 62# @ 28” and holds about 1” of reflex. It has a bloodwood core with an IPE belly and is backed with bamboo. I put in an osage power lamination to help stiffen the handle which is made from osage and wenge. The tips are buffalo horn.

I had fretting issues with my two previous BBI attempts so I purchased some new IPE that was specifically made for outdoor decking. After working with the new stuff, it became clear that what I previously thought was IPE was not the same wood. I had no problem with frets with this bow and am impressed with IPE. It is easy to work, super tough, and takes practically no set. Following are some pictures of the bow – I hope you like it.

(http://mysite.verizon.net/res0oeio/BooBwIPE/BooBwIPE_08.jpg)

(http://mysite.verizon.net/res0oeio/BooBwIPE/BooBwIPE_07.jpg)

 (http://mysite.verizon.net/res0oeio/BooBwIPE/BooBwIPE_02.jpg)

(http://mysite.verizon.net/res0oeio/BooBwIPE/BooBwIPE_03.jpg)

(http://mysite.verizon.net/res0oeio/BooBwIPE/BooBwIPE_04.jpg)

(http://mysite.verizon.net/res0oeio/BooBwIPE/BooBwIPE_11.jpg)

(http://mysite.verizon.net/res0oeio/BooBwIPE/BooBwIPE_12.jpg)

 (http://mysite.verizon.net/res0oeio/BooBwIPE/BooBwIPE_05.jpg)
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: NTD on November 27, 2009, 09:16:34 pm
what a Gorgeous Bow Gordon!!!  Any chance we could a get a close up of the handle?  Also is it a Reflex and Deflex of did you just reflex the tips?

Outstanding work.

Nate
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Gordon on November 27, 2009, 09:23:02 pm
Sure, here's a closeup of the handle.

It's an r/d design, but I like to concentrate the reflex closer to the tips than the classical design.

(http://mysite.verizon.net/res0oeio/BooBwIPE/BooBwIPE_13.jpg)
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: NTD on November 27, 2009, 09:26:57 pm
Thanks for the quick pic Gordon.  Yeah I knew it looked different than most R/D's and I like it.  I'm not sure how the performance differs but I know that I like the profile of that bow!!!  Might have to TRY to copy ya on my next BBI.  Love the handle by the way!! 
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Gordon on November 27, 2009, 09:33:37 pm
Nate,

I don't really care for the "straight limbed" look of a classical RD bow at full draw. I find the "flipped tip" style much more visually appealing. As to any performance difference between the two designs I can't say for sure. What I can say is the bows that I have made this way shoot fast enough to suit my needs.
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: NTD on November 27, 2009, 09:41:30 pm
I Love it Gordon and I'm sure it's fast.  Looks more straight forward to tiller than the typical R/D's as well.  The usual R/D design intimidates the heck out of me for tillering.  Thanks for the help.  One last question... is that about 10-12" flipped?

Nate
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Justin Snyder on November 27, 2009, 09:47:34 pm
Nice looking bow Gordon. Lots of color in it too.
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Dano on November 27, 2009, 10:20:14 pm
Great bow Gordon!!
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: sulphur on November 27, 2009, 10:50:36 pm
Gordon, you are a heck of a craftsman.  when i see your stuff i know i got a lot to learn.  i enjoy every minute of it.
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Pat B on November 27, 2009, 10:59:24 pm
Knowing what you can do with a stick I'm not surprised what you did with lams.  ;)  I'm with you Gordon, I prefer my reflex at the tips. Today's R/Ds don't look natural to my eye.
Very nice bow!
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: RyanY on November 27, 2009, 11:02:47 pm
That's a beautiful bow. I hope one day I'll be able to make a laminated bow like that. Great job.
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Ryano on November 27, 2009, 11:12:29 pm
That's a nice looking bow Gordon. I prefer reflex through out the limbs right off the deflexed riser with a little flipped up tips personally. It's been my favorite design lately.  What did you mean by "stress factors" ? Was it bending to the side in the handle area? Just curious.  :) Never attempted anything that heavy.  :P
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Blacktail on November 28, 2009, 01:23:04 am
wow gordon..that is some great work..i love the handle..your just ranking up there with john... ;D ;D....john
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: medicinewheel on November 28, 2009, 03:25:16 am
Gordon, you really make it hard for me not to be repetitive when commenting your work! - Fantastic!
Well, if the bow is too lightweight for the other guy I can always send you my address...  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Timo on November 28, 2009, 08:19:17 am
Top shelf Gordon! ;)
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: PaulN/KS on November 28, 2009, 09:05:46 am
That's a beautiful bow. But since when is 62# "light"...? :)

(He asked with shoulders that creak when he draws a bow over 55#...) ;)
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Keenan on November 28, 2009, 09:15:19 am
 Very nice Gordon, another outstanding work of art, to say the least. The contrasting colors and narrow limbs really give a gracefull look to that bow.   Your attention to detail is top of the line and you are always such a perfectionist that I'm sure that the lucky recipient will be very pleased. Great bow!
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Gordon on November 28, 2009, 10:40:54 am
Thank you Scott. IPE is very hard so your cutting tools have to be sharp. I floor tillered the bow with a microplane and nickelson #49. Then I used a flat bar of tool steel for a scraper and sharpened it frequently.

Nate I'm glad you approve of the profile. The reflex is concentrated in the out 12-14 inches of the limbs.

Thank you Justin. The handle turned out a little more colorful than I anticipated - you can never be quite sure how certain woods will look until you sand and put a finish on them.

Thank you Dano.

Thank you for the nice compliment Sulphur.

Thank you Pat. I still prefer working with "sticks", but it is amazing what you can do with laminations.

Thank you Ryoon.

Thank you Ryan. I’ve noticed you have adopted Marc’s design. It seems like it would be well suited to a short bow. I’ve been meaning to experiment with that design myself. The problem with the handle was that it was starting to delaminate.

I appreciate the compliment John, but I think I have a ways to go before I am anywhere near John’s level.

It’s good to hear from you Frank! I think I’ll keep this one – the stability and ease of shooting of a longer bow is growing on me.

Thank you Tim.

Thank you Paul.

Thank you Keenan. Your kind words are always appreciated.

Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Cooper on November 28, 2009, 11:11:19 am
Well, what should I say - it is just a wonderfull bow.
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: gmc on November 28, 2009, 11:23:51 am
Don't think I've seen a nicer spread on a bow, the curves are to die for, another outstanding bow.
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Barrage on November 28, 2009, 12:09:11 pm
Great looking bow Gordon.
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: medicinewheel on November 28, 2009, 12:14:19 pm
...
It’s good to hear from you Frank! I think I’ll keep this one – the stability and ease of shooting of a longer bow is growing on me.
...

I just thought I'd ask...   O:) O:) O:)
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Okie on November 28, 2009, 06:01:55 pm
Simply amazing work!! I love it.
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: radius on November 28, 2009, 06:25:00 pm
awesome, Gordon:  inspiring! 

What are the properties of that bloodwood core, wonder.  Never used it.  Did you choose it for its colour mainly, or some other quality?
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Gordon on November 28, 2009, 07:34:23 pm
Thank you Niels, I appreciate the compliment.

Thank you gmc, what a nice compliment.

Thank you Travis.

Frank, maybe you and I should do a bow swap sometime. I love your work.

Thank you John.

Thank you for the nice words Scott. To be honest I used bloodwood because that’s all I had in my shop the weekend I glued up the bow. The place I normally get hardwood from didn’t have any bamboo flooring which is what I would have normally used. But it seems to work fine and I do like the way the colors contrast.
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: denny on November 28, 2009, 07:37:45 pm
a very attractive flow of the lines. A bit to much weight for me, however , why waste the pretty wood if one could shoot it.   denny
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: mullet on November 29, 2009, 12:04:22 am
 Good looking bow,Gordon. Sure different seeing you playing with Lam's, but not suprising considering your skills. I guess next, Pappy will be building one. ;)
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: medicinewheel on November 29, 2009, 02:27:24 am
...
Frank, maybe you and I should do a bow swap sometime. I love your work.
...

I actually thought of suggesting that, too, already...  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: radius on November 29, 2009, 09:12:55 am
...
Frank, maybe you and I should do a bow swap sometime. I love your work.
...

I actually thought of suggesting that, too, already...  ;D ;D ;D

not to ruin your happy moment, but a heads up:  i just sent a 4" pvc pipe 72" long (full of 3 bows) to the UK from Vancouver Island.  It cost $180 CDN, which is what?  about 110 Euros.  That being said...
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Gordon on November 29, 2009, 11:09:27 am
Thank you Denny. I can assure you that this piece of wood is not going to waste - I have no problem drawing a 62# bow.  :)

Thank you for the compliment Eddie. I enjoy making both types of bows. Self-bows appeal to my creative side and laminated bows to the engineer in me.

Let's do it then Frank.

Scott, I realize the shipping will be expensive, but it would be a small price to pay for one of Frank's beautiful bows. 
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Asiertxu on November 29, 2009, 11:49:28 am
That´s about one of the BEST laminated bows I´ve seen in a very long time Gordon!
You really nailed it!!  8) :)...
Best regards master...
Asier.
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: zeNBowyer on November 29, 2009, 12:11:09 pm
Sweet  looking  bamboo bow:) What  kind  of  a  shooter  is  it  Gordon?  Be  interested    in a  chrono  on  that puppy:)
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: OldBow on November 29, 2009, 12:19:57 pm
Wow! and November BOM is coming up tomorrow, too!
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: huntinoly on November 29, 2009, 06:06:28 pm
Another awesome bow, I always look forward to seeing your bows on line, but I like to come down after the new year and see some in person. Greg
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: radius on November 29, 2009, 08:48:42 pm
Gordon, what i meant was...


I want to do a bow swap with you, too!
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: youngbowyer33 on December 01, 2009, 09:26:46 pm
wow looks terrific braced and the way you made all the wood of the handle blend into the limbs looks fantastic
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: DirtyDan on December 02, 2009, 09:04:09 am
Excellent as always, Gordon.  Your bows are always an inspiration to me.  Well done...again.

Dan
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Grunt on December 02, 2009, 09:38:33 am
I especially like your treatment of the tip overlays Gordon. Effective, gracefull without adding mass. I learned something looking at your posts. Thanks
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Dean Marlow on December 02, 2009, 09:43:12 am
Gordon your bow is another beauty. Your overlay tips are so smooth. Someday Gordon show us how you make those overlay tips blend right into the bamboo so good. That is something I just can't get to look as good as yours. Dean
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: StanM on December 02, 2009, 12:44:49 pm
Beautiful bow, Gordon.  The bows match the man, classy  ;)  Would like to see it sometime this winter.  Take care,

Stan
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Kirkll on December 02, 2009, 01:17:51 pm

Good morning Gordon,

very nice looking working limb on this one. power lams do wonders for pushing it out towards the tips more. i bet you are getting very good performance on that one.

i have a few basic questions that may sound odd. but why do the self Bowyer's use cabinet scrapers to lean down these limbs? the only thing I've ever used a cabinet scraper for in all my years as a carpenter was scraping glue off of cabinets.

another question i have originates from your build along post.   very nice job on that BTW.... but i watched you go through the whole process of tillering and getting the finished weight dialed in..... THEN you applied the grip build up, the silk backing and snake skins. this confused me.

my question is this:  If you are building a design that flexes through the grip portion of the bow like that one, doesn't the additional materials added in the grip one inch off center effect the tiller balance?

And wouldn't the added backing effect the balance of the working limb somewhat too, as well as add additional draw weight?


BTW.... i believe we are neighbors. :)...i live over in Mulino just south of Oregon City.



Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Badger on December 02, 2009, 01:40:29 pm
Hey Kirk, good to see you over here. I use a cabinet scraper myself on most all hardwoods. It takes very little physical effort and removes just enough wood with each stroke to not have too much effct on the tiller. You can take a lot of strokes in a short amount of time so a bow can be tillered out very quickly with one. I like to use the scraper on a very slightly rounded belly, almost so slightly rounded that it appears flat to the naked eye. Steve
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Kirkll on December 02, 2009, 02:11:08 pm
Thanks badger,

DCM sent me a pretty cool looking Osage stave, and i'd like to do it justice.  So i figured i better get my buns over here and learn a bit of the fine arts of wood manipulation before i start into it.

Besides that bro... i'm coming into my 4th year of my bowyers apprenticeship, and its time to get into the icing of the cake so to speak. i purposely saved this adventure for last.

 i got a feeling its going to be tough going back to grinding composites after getting into the primitive tradecraft, and just working my hands in wood here. just a gut feeling i have....lol

Kirk
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Gordon on December 02, 2009, 03:17:09 pm
Kirk,

As Steve said, a scraper allows very fine removal of the wood as you dial in the tiller. You could use a file for that, but I prefer a scraper because near the end all you should be doing is bringing the weight down and a scraper allows you to remove wood in long even strokes.

I believe any effect that silk and/or snake skin backing has on tiller to be neglegable so I don't worry about it. Building up the handle with leather probably stiffens the area up a bit, but not enough to make a real difference.
Since you are so close we should get together and trade notes sometime.

Gordon
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: RT on December 02, 2009, 08:46:38 pm
Beauiful bow Gordon.....................RT
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: PeteC on December 02, 2009, 09:20:40 pm
Another beauty! Great job Gordon.I agree with you on the tiller for this design.I'm using it on all my RD's.(It just looks right,like your using the whole limb) God Bless
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Gordon on December 03, 2009, 12:15:41 am
Asier, thank you so much for your nice words.

Thank you Zen. She seems to shoot about as well as my other laminated bows. I don’t know what it would do through a chrono though as I don’t own one.

Thank you Don.

Hey Greg, good to hear from you again. Thank you for the compliment. We’re planning another Rose City Bowyer meeting in Jan and I’ll be hosting. I’d love to see you there!

Scott, I’m definitely open to that idea. I’m very impressed with your work.

Thank you for the compliment youngBowyer.

Thank you Dan.

Thank you Grunt. I’m rather particular about the tips on my bows. It’s important to me that they are strong, yet streamlined and low mass.

Dean, thank you for the compliment. Having the right tools makes a difference when making tips – and then practice.

Hey Stan, it’s been a while. Thank you for the nice compliment. I’d love to see you at our next bowyers meeting if you can swing it.

Thank you Rob – it’s nice to hear from you again. How have you been?

Thank you Pete.
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: juniper junkie on December 03, 2009, 02:17:45 am
another fine example of your expertise. love the contrast in the handle. what will you be doing at the Rose City gathering?
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Marc St Louis on December 03, 2009, 09:06:11 am
Gordon
Is this the bow that failed on you?
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Pappy on December 03, 2009, 10:00:35 am
Killer bow Gordon,I like that a lot. Tiller looks good and the finish is right up to your standards. :)
     Pappy
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Gordon on December 03, 2009, 10:26:50 am
Thank you Dave. We work on bows during the gathering. You are certainly welcome to join us.

Marc, this is not the bow that failed.

Thank you Pappy.
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: brownhillboy on December 03, 2009, 11:24:28 pm
Fantastic looking bow Gordon!  I really like the colors, and it looks fast too. :)
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Marc St Louis on December 04, 2009, 05:35:48 pm
Good.  So you did get one to hold together.  It is a beautiful wood and the smell as you work it is quite interesting.  I still have some Bloodwood and every once in awhile I am tempted to give it another try, but then I remember all the other failures and I change my mind
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: Gordon on December 04, 2009, 09:16:35 pm
Thank you brownhillboy.

Marc, it's holding together so far. It is beautiful wood and looks great in a bow.
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: tdog on December 10, 2009, 01:53:44 am
Beautiful bow! Excellent attention to detail.

Mark
Title: Re: Boo Backed Bloodwood and IPE
Post by: dantolin on December 10, 2009, 06:26:14 am
This is a very nice bow. Your bows allways inspire me.