Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: bootboy on November 23, 2009, 11:28:39 am
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66" tip to tip. 2 1/2" at the handle fades, tapering to 1 7/8" at the ear fades. Ears are 13" long, and the bending limb is 16" there is a Large know just above the center of the 8" handle i plan to cut a arrow shelf into. So far the bending limb is an 1inch thick. I plan to sinew the nuggets out of this.
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annnnd more photos
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the tips are 5/16" thick by 1/2 deep and at the ear fades 15/16"wide by 1" thick forgot to add that. They're Really thin!
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cool. those tips are super thin! :) -josh
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Alright so the roughing out is finished and now the fine tuning begins
I had to steam straighten the first limb so the string lined up in the center you can see water stains.
Then the next photos are the arrow shelf cut out. It looks pretty weak but I really Reefed on it and it only just slightly moves an almost unnoticeable amount.
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oooh i dont know about that arrow pass man, looks kinda thin through there. The handle area isthe most highly stressed area on a bow and with that sharp of a cut in, it really makes that area unstable. Hopefully it will be okay but I don't know. Good luck! -josh :)
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I was experimenting with heat treating after simply using a heatgun and scorching the bellies of a few bows with no success, then i revisited Marc St.louis's chapter in the TBB
then I figured it was like cooking a roast, Sometimes slow roasting brings out the best flavours. So I left the limbs 7 inches about the stove held in place with a large mazwell house coffee can and the other end on the handle of the fridge i sat there sorting sinew and preparing hide glue for the next stage, for over an hour and a halfbefore i noticed anychanged at all. Then for the last 2-3 minutes i lowered the limbs of the element to darken them only slightly and very evenly. The result was the illusive concave bellie that Marc wrote about in the book.
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Yea, Thats what I thought at first but i put my full weight on it multiple times and like i said there wasnt much give at all. More so the thin tips where taking the bend.
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So I sat there for hours and hours sorting out sinew into bundles. and only had enough for the first thing layer and a little covering the second limb. Then the next day again a few hours in the sinew sorting department, till I had enough.
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and now my camera isnt working....
Really now.....Come ON! >:(
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the handle is 5/8" wide at the arrowshelf, by 2" deep I think its going to be alright.
I can always re-enforce it with rawhide on the otherside
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Thin or not don't give up on it, the worst that could happen is it could break >:D and we've all had that happen!
-Ky
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thats my guy right here!! I like that sentament
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I hope it works, looks great so far! -josh :)
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Man!!! Why did you cut that arrow pass into the handle. Makes my guts turn to water just looking at it!.
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Man!!! Why did you cut that arrow pass into th handle. Makes my guts turn to water just looking at it!.
:D :D :D :D
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it IS a very deep cut.
I hope this one works, bb...i love holmies...
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to cut a shelf, or not to cut a shelf, that is the question.
I can appreciate the functionality of a cut in shelf, but i just love the way a bow looks with a leather handle wrap and no shelf at all, very...elegant.
If i am building a bow for a beginner or a kid i always have some kind of a shelf, i think it is a lot easier for them. I also keep a bow or two around with a shelf for hunting late in the year when you have to wear big 'ol gloves hunting, shooting off the knuckle is not the way to go when you have a big glove or mitten on.
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You can call that one the bopper. She's going to snap right there. Sooner or later. I'd beef up that handle with at least an inch overlay. You lnow you really don't need a cut in arrow shelf. A leather glue on works well. I feel a rant coming on. Easy George...Easy..:) Jawge
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or no shelf at all....
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LOL :D I have never seen that I just hope he dont pull that back one day and have it snapp him in the head....I am in tears right now :D :D :D :D can anyoneelse picture that???? No really Id build up an arrow shelf nextr time I actually favor bows without them once u learn to shoot that way there no problem!!!
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drawn pictures?
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Well, you could make a take down homie. ;) ;D
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man i hope it works just to prove us all wrong....
but it'll be tricky. you need to get it bending RIGHT OUT of the handle...without bending IN the handle at all...
good luck
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Uh Oh....
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hate to jump on any band wagon but i concur with the masses !
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I think I would at least reinforce the handle with bone plate. I had the same problem with a bow a while back. I thought it would be fine, but it didn't take long for it to snap!
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consider safety glasses and helmet, and tell your wife you love her before firing this baby.
your shaping is GORGEOUS by the way, you make me wanna try one of these.
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I love this place, if there is something you NEED to know you really hear it.
This all came from a friend of mine insisting on having a black locust holmegaard with a pistol grip, and a cut in arrowshelf, and somewhat of a sinewed reflex.
After hearing of my other friends idea the one that had me make this wanted something of a duplicate . I found the one with the knot in the center, I just wanted to test a theory.
The cut is pretty deep ya it goes right to the very center of the stave.
I will try my best to make it bend right out from the fades and not the halde at all, yes thank you
Jawge I will tell her, before I fire this one. HAHA! and thank you about the shaping.
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LOL, bootboy, the old vets around here just have no tact. They are just trying to save you from some of the bumps and bruises they got in the beginning. I've had several go at full draw. Got some bumps to prove it. Jawge
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i made a couple of red oak bows when i was first starting, super light light light kids' bows, but long. i used a countersink bit to go into the handle maybe 3/8", then filled it with a plug of teak wood: this was the arrow pass. that's where it broke.
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I'm starting to think along the lines of the suggested bone plate, and I had the idea of the take down possibility rolling around too
Oh man I had my very first tillered bow Go on me about 5 years ago, I made it 3 1/2" wide 6' long tapering to 5/8" it had about 5 coats of sinew. I marked the thickness as I imagined, and I didn't bother to tiller it correctly, I thought that tillering was not the the removal of wood fromeither limbs, to bend symmetrically, rather to exercises into doing it. I don't know how i took that from read Jim hamms original book. Anyways it must have been about 140lbs @28" then it snapped cracking the sinew and nearly knocking me out.
I wish I had photos. :P
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At least with the bone plate, you can add some reassurance and it doesn't have to be as thick as adding wood.
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I've seen the bone plate on the side of the handle as well, but im assuming that the plate should in this case go on the back??
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Excuse my language but GOD DAMN 140lbs at 28 inches is a bit nuts....why u pull it that far at that weight? Lucky u didnt get seriously hurt. U want to tiller slow and get it to a feasable weight before get even trying to pull 28 inches u can almost split an atom doing that..better be careful!
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I'de try to go with a plate on the back and the belly. That knot in the handle is at a relly bad spot! I'de be tempted to wrap it as well. That bow is very nicely shaped and it would be a shame to lose it.
Always better to be safe than sorry!
Side plates are another option. They are common on asian bows that are spliced at the handles, and some of those bows are very high poundage.
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HAHAHA no no that estimated 140lbs @28" bow was my first Bow ever, I had no scale to measure. But it it took all my strength to pull it to 28" while knealling on the basement floor and Im by no means a dainty fella.
Since then i have learned that slow tillering by removing wood is the way to do it hahahaha. Like I said at the time. I had the idea that, that was it, once you have the set measurement the bow should bend exactly the way you want, but you would need to leave it strung. I think I got the idea from mixed some roughly skimmed through jim hamm book and robert hardy's longbow book where he mentioned leaving his ELB strung to excersize the limbs or something to that effect. Looking back on it, it seemed quite brainless. But I really didnt know anything about wood then.
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full draw?
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waitting to have the camera fixed
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I really like the job you did. of course I wouldn't used a window as I like things to look real old fashion. I just built one out of boo and hickory, the dimensions weren't as good as my hickory needed trimmed. good luck Denny
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ok so the camera is fixed and the handle is reenforced. I first used bone though the bone was from a baked bone dog chew and was brittle and had stress cracks. Thusly it broke during sanding. I switched to elk antler. and the result.
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Soon I'll resinew the area thats been sanded off.
My question is what do you all think. Its be glued on with simple yellow carpenters glue , and then filled with hide glue and antler dust and sanded flush.
Should i tie a band of sinew on it.?
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That Arrow rest is SCARY!!! I like the Bow...but the rest makes my Butt Pucker............ :o
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Bum pucker!
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I'm also wondering... why did you cut that terrible arrow pass in the middle of the grip?? Where are you planning on putting your hand?
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The Guy that ordered it wanted it this way. The handle section is 8 inches long, so you grab it on the 4" beneath the window/shelf/ whatever its called
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heres another view of it.
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The Guy that ordered it wanted it this way. The handle section is 8 inches long, so you grab it on the 4" beneath the window/shelf/ whatever its called
You're actually going to give this bow to someone? Is it someone you know? Are you selling it? If it breaks and hurts someone, you could be in for a huge headache.
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Oh yes to all the above.
Im going to tiller it to 55lbs at 31"
i think I'll maybe wrap the ends of the antler. Its rediculously firm at the handle I've been testing it. and not even a little budge from it
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hi...sorry for my English...a good idea is wrap with sinew or also hard fiber the fades and the handle overlay...for safety...when you tiller the bow, the overlay glue line maybe to break...i see wood fiber is sectioned near the overlay...another reason to brake at this portion...
good luck with your bow ;)
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Its a simple butt joint.
I was thinking of wraping it with sinew. Though im trying to think of a way of not completely ruinning the look of the antler overlay. Yes the over is just for structural support but it also makes it look seriously badass. any suggestions?
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You're actually going to give this bow to someone? Is it someone you know? Are you selling it? If it breaks and hurts someone, you could be in for a huge headache.
Depends on how he goes about it. I make a lot of things...the wire figures I make can be seen in the trading post...just about all of my customers sign their name to a sales slip which has, at the bottom, just above the "sign here" line, a statement that reads "By signing, customer agrees that any damage to property or person as a result of use, display, or storage of (the item) is the sole responsibility of the customer. Customer agrees to accept full responsibility of ownership, use, handling, and storage of (the item)." All states vary, but in Texas that stands as a complete release of liability.
I would have advised against it, but had the buyer insisted it would have been cut the same way. The customer is always "right"...even when they're wrong. I actually had one guy bring his bike to me and list symptoms and, instead of having me diagnose the bike, gave me a list of things to do as "corrections"...he was somewhat distraught when none of the tasks he asked me to performed fixed his bike. Of course I cut him a great deal on doing to correct repairs...but sometimes it's better to let the customer learn the hard way.
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A full draw pic perhaps?
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Well I cut arrow shelves in my bows all the time, as long as you left it thick enough belly to back not to bend it should be fine. You people that never cut a arrow shelf in a bow don't know what your missing. ::)
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its now about 2 1/2" thicks and re-enforced by sinewed antler. I think its going to be good.
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I sort of have missed this thread, don't know why...
Honestly, I strongly recommend NOT to give this bow to a cutomer, no matter how save it might seem to feel!
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Ryan, that's the point. He didn't leave it thick enough. mackenzie, I don't sell bows but the customer is not right when it comes to structural integrity that is if I wanted to have a customer which I don't. LOL. :) Jawge
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Ryan, that's the point. He didn't leave it thick enough. mackenzie, I don't sell bows but the customer is not right when it comes to structural integrity...
ABSOLUTLY!!!
Ps: Been reading some more through the thread; did you say you glued on the antler overlay with carpenter's glue? Did I understand that right???
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mackenzie, I don't sell bows but the customer is not right when it comes to structural integrity that is if I wanted to have a customer which I don't. LOL. :) Jawge
I don't sell a lot of bows...and the ones I sell are premade, more often than not. When I say "the customer is always right" I don't mean that they are; what I mean is that they get what they want. When it comes to the things that I AM a professional about, I try to make it a point to get them to ask me what they need as opposed to telling me.
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LOL. I know what you meant. I just disagree. But like I said ...:) Jawge
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I just disagree.
I agree. ;D
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I agree too. :) Jawge
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bootboy, all talk about the shelfcut being a problem, but honestly I'm not sure about the integrity of the knot in the handle either!
If you had left some more meat around it and made it a bulbous handle, and designed your bow starting from that, it certainly would have been better, and the whole grip/fade area would have been possibly shorter, I think.
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I was just going to start the tillering process. Then came in and read how strongly everyone advices me not to proceed. Due to the structural integrity of the arrowshelf.
I Still am Of the belief that this is a viable design, though I admit it needs to be upgraded a little. So What if i wrapped the antler in sinew?
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I do sell bows, but the customers I deal with don't know dukey about bows, that is why they trust me on my judgement. If In doubt which it sounds like your are, learn from your experience,and whip out another.I do a lot of handles,however it takes a lot of experience in changing the integrity of the bow stave, I have broken a lot of beautiful bows by a cut here and there. be careful and safe,When bows break they have a unbelievable amount of force and sound like Gun some times.And If you are in the way ..o 'well. I like the Idea of the balboas handle, that is the handle I choose for hallmarked bows. Nice job overall thou,I must say that and gave us all something to think about. Takes courage to ask for help, but when we stop asking , we stop learning. Denny
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I would fully recommend finishing the bow...no point in not at this point. Use it all as a learning experience. I actually didn't realize there was a knot in the handle...that shelf, plus a knot...I really don't know about that. I wouldn't trust it at all. I would still finish the bow, but I would really keep my expectations very low.
After getting the limbs nicely tillerred, you might consider cutting them off and making a take-down bow.
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denny, excellent post. I've been making or trying to make bows for 20 years. I still break them and I still make mistakes especially when I leave my comfort zone and trying something new or something I haven't done in awhile. I'm still learning. Take heart, bootboy. Jawge
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Bootboy, I don't think the design is wrong; it's just to much of a risk for that handle to come apart, and if it does it will do with a bang most likely, just as Denny said!
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Well 11 months later, and Im almost ready to show the pics on this one. mwahahaa!!!
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Can't wait to see
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Well 11 months later, and Im almost ready to show the pics on this one. mwahahaa!!!
NOW THATS JUST PLAINO ORNERY!!!!
Show the dang pics!!!
Ron
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"NOW THATS JUST PLAINO ORNERY!!!!
Show the dang pics!!!"
;D ;D ;D Beyond ornery! Ya, I second that. I wanna see the pics too. I so thought it was going to be a board bow when I saw the title, and then saw the actual bow. I think it is the first red oak bow I have seen that is actually a true selfbow!
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Holmegaard ??
No, that's not a Holmegaard style bow , it is an Møllegabet ;)
You might change the thread title .
The bow looks pretty cool , but I do worry about the handle like the others do
acker
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mollegarbet?
whats the difference i thought it was the same thing.
Ya niot only did this bow NOT blow apart its pulling something like 85lbs at 20"
lemme get these photos on the computer you guys will have a feild day.
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The same ? nö :o ;D
You might read this :
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/27645
acker
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aha so they both do the same thing. but one has more of a dramatic "holmegaardization". got it.
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Well sorry for the delay. But heres a new photo finaly
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sorry heres the new specs.
89# @ 25"
Still holding no damage or wear. for compression fractures. Just a beautiful healthy bow.
Let the tillering continue!!
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It's supposed to be 55# @ 31.
But I', almost done the tillering and Its still warbow weight.
the tiller is almost PERFECT!
DILEMA?
Wait for the photos.