Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: hedgeapple on November 09, 2009, 08:21:10 pm
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What is your alls thought of what is grouping size when target shooting to be good enough to ethically deer hunt with a traditional bow? Is 6 out of 10 in an 8" circle good enough. Is 8 out of 10 in an 8" circle the minimum. Should it be a 6" circle or 4" or 2"?
I've always been a stickler for accuracy on the target range before I'd consider myself and the weapon ready to humanely take an animal. With firearms I expect to shoot a clover leaf at 50 yards before me and the gun/bullet combination are ready to go to the field. With a compound bow I feel I'm ready when I feel I can put the first arrow in a 4 inch cirlce and 25 yards and group 8 out of 10 in the 4" circle with most being withing a 2" circle and none being outside of an 8 inch circle.
I'm wanting and yearning to put aside my compound and hunt only with my hickory bow. I'm ok with limiting my shooting distance to 10 yard 15 on the outside limit, but requirements for an ethical, humane kill is keeping me from doing so.
I did take the hickory bow out yesterday evening to "bunny hunt" I told myself. But, I nocked an arrow with a trade point just in case I deer presented itself. I was exploring a cedar patch for bunnies and scouting a ground blind location. While standing in a potential ground blind locations and pondering, I heard a deer moving through the thicket 15 yards to my right. Moment of truth time; there were 2 trails below me-- one at 8 yards and one at 15 yards. I decided if the deer walked down either I would take the shot. Well, the deer didn't. If stayed to my right in with cedars obscuring my visibality. It was the most exciting hunt I've had this season.
Walking back to the house I passed my foam target. The light was well passed what I would have shot at a deer. For grins and giggles, with the bullseye barely visialbe, I stepped off 15 yard and released the arrow. I hit 1 1/2 inch to the left of center, well within a 4 inch circle. I smiled to myself thinking, if the deer had taken either of the 2 trails, I would have been able to make the shot.
I'm beginning to think this encounter is the great spirit's (of your choicing) way to tell me "you're ready. It's time." But, I would be so sick if wounded a deer and lost it.
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Ethics are a difficult issue to define. I have mine, but I wont hold anyone else to them or criticise theirs. As for target shooting before hunting, there is no answear. I know guys that can target shoot a long way out, but cant hit at 10 feet when hunting. Do what you are comfortable with. ;)
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i pass on alot of deer when it dont feel right to me at close range. i won alot of shoots with a stick but its foam. you will know when and what is right just dont make a shot you aint a 100% on. even the best shooters mess up every now and then.
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I've only shot one deer with a long bow, it finally happened this season. I was always concerned about wounding an animal, but when I finally had a shot I took it. It seemed almost automatic, and I don't remember really shooting. I just remember seeing the arrow in the deer. It was a good shot I hit the liver lungs and heart, the deer only ran about 25 yds. My advice is shoot within the range that you "know" you can kill at. In your gut you know your shot, take it. Good luck.
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Justin I hear you and know some guys like that too. Me, I shoot better, historically, in hunting situations than I do on the target range or in friendly competitions. On the range I struggle to keep the concentration. In friendly competition I get rattled. In the field my senses are tuned to the moment.
Woodstick and rick, I know what you mean about "feeling of knowing" the shot. I've passed on some shots that were easy in theory but didn't feel right and I've take some shots that were less than ideal but I "knew" were good. Last season I took a 6 pointer with a non-traditional bow. It was slightly quartering facing me. I've passed that shot many times with a scoped rifle. But, this time I felt it. All the anchor points were locked. The pin was solid on the white patch on it's throat. I knew it was a good shoot. The arrow cut it's windpipe, both coradid arteries and pierce one lung. It expired less than 40 yards from the shot.
Thanks all for the encouragement.
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heard a deer moving through the thicket 15 yards to my right. Moment of truth time; there were 2 trails below me-- one at 8 yards and one at 15 yards. I decided if the deer walked down either I would take the shot.
From reading your post of the evenings event ,it sounds to me like your past ready you were already picking your range and setting up for the shot, inside your already predetermined comfort zone. Just because it is a primitive bow ,don't let that second guess you . I know people who shoot training wheel bows ,that will shoot my primitive bow. And say there is know way I would hunt with that,but yet it is still the same weight bow that there shooting
Dennis
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This is one of those things I take very seriously,since a life,and,or pain, is at stake.I practice a lot at varied ranges ,in open pastures,in the woods ,from nearly laying on the ground,to 25' up in a tree.I strive to keep my misses very small,so that even if my shot is off a little,it'll still be lethal.I would say if you can't keep them in a 2" circle,keep moving closer till you can,and that's your maximum effective range.(until you get better)JMO ;) God Bless
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If you can put the first shot of the day in the kill zone(target) on a regular basis, you are as ready as you can be. The rest is up to you.
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Whatever distance you reliably place your shots within the vitals of the chest area
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If you can put the first shot of the day in the kill zone(target) on a regular basis, you are as ready as you can be. The rest is up to you.
Could not put it much better than this...If I can Hit what is considered the GoldenTriangle (Vitals) at a distance...consistently....then I feel comfortable of it....Last years I swore that I would not take one past 20 yards...and didn't...but I got no deer last year either...this Year without thinking of Yardage...a Massive Buck came out and offered Me a Quartering Shot...and without thinking...I drew....released...and watched my Arrow ...I thought I missed....but He ran less than 30 yards and dropped Dead in the Trail....perfect Heart/Liver Quartering Shot from 28 yards.....so now I feel comfortable out to 30 Yards after that...Everyone will have Their Honey Spot...and You will find Yours ...with Practice
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I think a lot of you guys are way to hung up on groups. Like Pat said its only the first arrow that counts. I can't shoot a good score on a 3D range, but I sure as heck can still kill a deer. I've proved that year after year.Yet some of these guys I shoot with all summer who out shoot me all the time never kill anything. A two inch circle Pete? You gotta be kidding me....You must be one heck of a good shot. If held myself to that I'd never set foot in the woods. I shoot at a deer 3d target and as long as I'm confident my very first arrow will go inside the marked 8 ring on the target, I'm good to go with that. A deers kill zone is at least the size of a football, not a golf ball.
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Thanks everyone for you encouragement. It sure does help. I took the hickory bow out this morning. I set up in a place where if a deer passed through it would be within 10 yards. I have a food plot and a salt block there. Deer have been visiting both, but not this morning. I do feel I can put the first arrow in an 8 inch circle at 15 yards and 6 inch circle at 10 yards.
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Bit of reference:
A deer's kill zone is roughly 9-10".
The best barebow archers, using modern recurves and metal/carbon/composite arrows, can hold a consistent group of 6" at 20 yards. Better than that and you're either using a sight or are a freak of nature.
Any range you can consistently hold an 8-10" group, with no bad fliers or mistakes, is the range you could shoot at a deer. When this season started, that was about 30 yards... but my bow was so slow, I wouldn't have dreamed of shooting past 20.
Another little note. Archers like Byron Ferguson and Howard Hill were excellent eye-hand coordination shooters. That is, they pick a spot and can shoot at it. One of Ferguson's tricks is shooting a lifesaver at 15-20 yards. Because that little target makes it easy to pick a spot. Likewise, if you have a natural ability to pick a spot on an animal, then you don't need to have target level accuracy- like Ryan explained.
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I agree with Pat B,groups will tell you about your form but its all about that one shot.I practice 1 arrow at a time from different distances and when a shot on game presents its self if I start wondering about it instead of pulling the string I dont shoot.
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You will know when it's right when it's not don't shoot
you'll know
Thanks Leroy
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A lot of my practice is at a whiffle golf ball that is about 1 1/2 " in diameter.I don't shoot groups either,but one arrow,then retrieve it.If i can keep most of my misses within an inch of the ball,I'm satisfied. I have my bad days too,and by no means am I an expert shot,but, when you aim small,you usually miss small,and this helps your confidence in a hunting situation.God Bless
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Every situation is different, I would suggest shoot close, the closer you let them get the better your odds of a harvest.. and practice in all positions... real hunting situations rarely allow for perfect form and stance.. aim small miss small.. Hawk
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shooting groups into a target is one thing, but once the arrow leaves the string on a live animal, it's pure luck to hit where you aim. the reaction time of a deer is 1/100 of a second. i won't even go into how fast squirrels can be. knowing this, how can anyone presume to "hit where they aim"? don't get me wrong, you have to be able to place the arrow where it needs to go and hopefully hit the mark so practice is a must. after 30 years of bowhunting, i can say that hitting the mark can be the easy part. it's the seconds just before the shot that make or break the hunt. the timing of the draw and release in relation to the animals progress or disposition is what makes a hunter. of course, this is just my opinion.
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That's a great point, hunting is a skill that goes beyond target shooting
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It's a week into modern weapon deer season and work has prevented me from hunting. I've only been out twice on my farm and once on my mother's farm. There are only 5 small packs of venison in my freezer. Fortunately, I'v been invited to hunt a deer rich farm in Monroe County. So my season begins Saturday. I'll be hunting Saturday afternoon through Tuesday morning.
I've been thinking of taking my hickory bow. I stepped outside just now to practice. At 15 yards the first 3 arrows were in an 8 inch circle. I lost a bit of concentration on the 4th arrow, but it was within a 12 inch circle. I tighten up my concentration, the 5th and 6th arrows were in a 2 inch circle. I'm taking the hickory bow with me. It might just hang on the tree while hunt with my rifle, but if conditions are right, I feel I can put a primitive arrow in the kill zone.
Wish me luck. Dave