Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: Rhinegold on October 22, 2009, 01:57:03 am
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I tried doing a search on this but didnt find much on the technique of tilting the bow slightly at full draw...called 'canting'.
Is there any evidence in the old literature that medieval archers used this method...or native americans...or even the various asian styles?
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There are pictures of natives shooting like that, there's a famous one of Ishi squatting down with the bow at about 45degrees.
Google Ishi if you've never heard of him (a well documented native american, he was the last of the Yana because his tribe was slaughtered by white men as they put telegraph poles across the US)
I'd stand the question on it's head... "Why on earth would you want to hold a bow absolutely vertical?"... unless of course you have a truck load of modern paraphenalia bolted to it?
Another point, stand relaxed with your eyes closed, think Yoga or Tai Chi, gently raise your arms out sideways, fingres and thumb lightly spread... relax, let them float... now don't move... open your eyes look at you left hand? Is the thumb at about 45dgrees or is it vertical? That would seem to me to be a natural angle to hold a bow.
So finally to answer the question, there is no reason to believe that canting the bow hasn't always been the way of shooting it, I don't expect early man stood up straight and tall with a vertical bow to try to shoot food, he'd likely scare everything in the vicinity.
Del
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Shooting the bow in various position is natural to the weapon, I'm sure this practise was around long before it was recorded for history, looking forward to any archealogical evidence posted
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Never heard of neither 'tilting' a bow, nor 'canting' a bow!
Are you talking about some aspect of the bow building process?
If it is in the shooting process, yes, I hold my bow slightly tilted to the right. (See below)
That what you mean??
Yup...is that a badger? Cute!
The Koreans cant like that too, but they are shooting on the right side of the bow...which seems odd to me because you'd think the arrow would just fall right off.
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Shooting the bow in various position is natural to the weapon, I'm sure this practise was around long before it was recorded for history, looking forward to any archealogical evidence posted.
Well theres some ancient bas relief sculpture of Egyptian and middle eastern archers who dont appear to cant...but that could just be a limitation of the medium.
The Japanese dont do it...but thats probably because they use such long top heavy bows.
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I'd stand the question on it's head... "Why on earth would you want to hold a bow absolutely vertical?"... unless of course you have a truck load of modern paraphenalia bolted to it?
Decades ago, when I took archery lessons I was told that tilting the bow was bad form, strictly taboo...but it just seemed easier to aim that way.
You can see the target more clearly and the arrow point seems to line up with the target more directly. Thats my perception at least.
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Another point, stand relaxed with your eyes closed, think Yoga or Tai Chi, gently raise your arms out sideways, fingres and thumb lightly spread... relax, let them float... now don't move... open your eyes look at you left hand? Is the thumb at about 45dgrees or is it vertical? That would seem to me to be a natural angle to hold a bow.
Speaking of Tai Chi...thats what I always said about punching in Wing Chun martial arts, where the fist is held strictly vertical. Seems like such an unnatural posture.
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New Guinea men rock! (and canter)
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Rhinegold, If you were taught target archery or to shoot a compound or with sights a vertical bow is a must. With instinctive shooting, canting is almost a must although a vertical bow will shoot just fine instinctively. A bow with no arrow rest lends itself to canting as a way to keep the arrow in the bow.
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With instinctive shooting, canting is almost a must although a vertical bow will shoot just fine instinctively.
By 'instinctive' do you mean shooting without any technical aiming technique?
Sometimes the alternate word is 'intuitive'.
This is what I didnt like about compound target shooting...the feeling of being the operator of a machine. The relationship between shooter and target is more visceral with a simple wood self bow.
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By instinctive I mean looking at what you are going to hit and letting your brain take your body through the mechanics of the shot. Without any technical aiming technique. I believe it is a combo of hand/eye coordination and mental concentration. The latter being the most difficult aspect. ;D
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I beleive that We are all a bit MENTAL.....Pat!!!
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Canting seems intuitvely wrong, as if it should only add to the complexity of shooting, but in fact seems to do the opposite, at least within normal hunting ranges (30 yds or less),
Also I think we use various amounts of 'aiming' techniques and purely instinctive shots,
for instance at my 20 yd target I definitely practise split vision (as I understand the phrase) and line up my left eye, shaft and target in some way, while also viewing the target actively with my right eye (I are a lefty),
but at my 40 yd target it is much more instinctive as the window sighting is above the target now,
also I shoot with very little cant for longer shots, as it seems easier to judge the target distance
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both together make up real shooting imho
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By instinctive I mean looking at what you are going to hit and letting your brain take your body through the mechanics of the shot. Without any technical aiming technique.
The best example I've yet seen of this is not an archer but a guy with a slingshot.
He doesnt appear to aim at all by lining up anything visually.
Watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ieWrWLjii0
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A sling shot, throwing a baseball, basket ball or football, hitting a golf ball, spitting tobacco and hitting what you are looking at...all instinctive shooting of a sort. ;)
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what about shooting a Slingshot that Shoots Arrows........... >:D
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I beleive that We are all a bit MENTAL....
Nah... really think so?? >:D >:D >:D
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"The relationship between shooter and target is more visceral with a simple wood self bow."
Hey, I like that...sums it up nicely.
Del
BTW I don't see how a vertical bow obscures less of the target???
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Try shooting a deer from your knees with a 6' bow without canting. ooga-booga
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On a self bow with or without a rest put the arrow on the string and look down your arrow as you hold the bow vertical. The arrow will be pointing left of center if you are right handed or right of enter if you are left handed. Now cant the bow so that the rest (or your bow hand) and the bow make a V shape. The arrow will now be straight in front of you. When shot vertically the arrow tends to leap up and slightly out from the bow and then recover. We instinctively compensate for that by changing our bow arm in relationship to our target. Usually by canting the bow to a more natural position for us, the bow, and viewing the target. When the bow is canted correctly the arrow will leap up but be already inline with the target.
I would suggest that shooting a bow vertically would be more modern and perhaps dictated by mass armies shooting long bows shoulder to shoulder.
Kirby
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This has been brought up time and time again.In my case,as a hunter ,I position my bow to get the arrow under my dominant eye,regardless of the position of the shot.The bow may end up anywhere from parallel to the ground to past vertical while contorting my body to make a shot happen.I feel certain that hunters throughout the ages have done likewise.God Bless
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I would suggest that shooting a bow vertically would be ... perhaps dictated by mass armies shooting long bows shoulder to shoulder.
Kirby
Most likely!
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On a self bow with or without a rest put the arrow on the string and look down your arrow as you hold the bow vertical. The arrow will be pointing left of center if you are right handed or right of enter if you are left handed. Now cant the bow so that the rest (or your bow hand) and the bow make a V shape. The arrow will now be straight in front of you. When the bow is canted correctly the arrow will leap up but be already inline with the target.
Thats it!!! Excellent answer Mahto!
I've been trying to articulate in my own mind why its easier to aim while canting and you have described it perfectly.
Even Korean archers who shoot on the right side of the bow still cant to the right...which seems odd because I doubt they can even see the points of the arrows at full draw.