Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Easternarcher on October 12, 2009, 10:44:00 pm

Title: ohhhhh! The Carnage!!!
Post by: Easternarcher on October 12, 2009, 10:44:00 pm
I was in final stages of tillering this Boo backed IPE R/D. The static brace looked real good I thought. 5.5- 6" brace with 1/8" positive on upper limb. Don't have a pic of the unbraced profile but it had 1" deflex with 2" reflex in front of riser.
Had it drawing 50lbs at 25in. on the tree when I thought I heard a tick sound just as I was reaching 25" for the second time... Just as soon as I heard that sound, I heard a bigger BANG! The upper limb let go right thru the middle.(The limb on the right side in the pics).
I thought maybe you more experienced Bowyers could point out a flaw or two? Maybe bad boo, bad IPE? Couldn't see anything myself. Well, this was supposed to be a birthday gift soon enough, just means I'm gonna have a few late nights getting another ready.
Sorry Tony!
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/Easternarcher/Cathys%20Bow/CopyofIMG_1627.jpg)
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/Easternarcher/Cathys%20Bow/CopyofIMG_1628.jpg)
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/Easternarcher/Cathys%20Bow/CopyofIMG_1631.jpg)
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/Easternarcher/Cathys%20Bow/CopyofIMG_1630.jpg)
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/Easternarcher/Cathys%20Bow/CopyofIMG_1632.jpg)
Title: Re: ohhhhh! The Carnage!!!
Post by: mullet on October 12, 2009, 10:50:32 pm
 Looks like it broke in the runoffs in the Ipe.
Title: Re: ohhhhh! The Carnage!!!
Post by: Easternarcher on October 12, 2009, 10:59:28 pm
Looks like it broke in the runoffs in the Ipe.

Mullet, I guess that's possible. I looked again just now and in the pic.....in the upper right, there was an section of lighter coloured wood and althought it did run out some, it wasn't as bad as the lower limb run-out. but I guess that works for an explanation. I'll just have to be more careful on the IPE I use from now on.
 The break starts at a run-off but cuts across grain  most of the way.  I didn't think that grain would have made a big problem since it was backed with boo tho. ???
Title: Re: ohhhhh! The Carnage!!!
Post by: Pat B on October 13, 2009, 12:21:23 am
I have to agree with Eddie. The grain angle is too sharp, even with a boo backing.
Title: Re: ohhhhh! The Carnage!!!
Post by: knightd on October 13, 2009, 12:31:57 am
I agree as well.. just out of curiosity is the break right where your clamp was??
Title: Re: ohhhhh! The Carnage!!!
Post by: Parnell on October 13, 2009, 01:37:02 am
I've had several that did the same but I was starting out and backing with maple.  Probably not the best choice.  The breaks did look the same.  I started getting picky about a better part of my Ipe board (grain) and using hickory backing.  Still trying to figure out how to prepare bamboo...

I know the ominous sound, well.  Ugh!
Title: Re: ohhhhh! The Carnage!!!
Post by: medicinewheel on October 13, 2009, 02:27:25 am
There are also marks in the bamboo right where it broke, that might indicate some weak spot; maybe that added to the runoff problem.
Title: Re: ohhhhh! The Carnage!!!
Post by: Easternarcher on October 13, 2009, 06:48:10 am
I agree as well.. just out of curiosity is the break right where your clamp was??

hmmmm, I just checked that Dave....no the clamp was 2 in. farther out. Here's a pic of my form...the break was 12-14" from center. Clamp was either at 16 or 18" from center. Glued up without the riser in place of course.
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/Easternarcher/Cathys%20Bow/CopyofIMG_1633.jpg)

Is it possible I over-dried the boo in my hotbox or dried it too fast? Would that add to the problem?
Dang...I'm gonna have to shorten that plank and splice the rest together for slats.
More work, but I'm learning. I liked how this was turning out too! ::)

Title: Re: ohhhhh! The Carnage!!!
Post by: Marc St Louis on October 13, 2009, 09:00:40 am
Looks to me like the Bamboo failed
Title: Re: ohhhhh! The Carnage!!!
Post by: Tom Leemans on October 13, 2009, 10:25:27 am
just curious, how thick was the boo?
Title: Re: ohhhhh! The Carnage!!!
Post by: ShinneryOak on October 13, 2009, 11:42:17 am
I posted a few days ago about the same kind of thing. I've tried Ipe a few times (unbacked) and the stuff I had failed like this, where the grain ran off. I just had another one blow up, this one was a backing of ipe on osage, the whole thing broke thru at the handle, but still seemed to follow the runoff. That's why I have my first order of boo in the mail, thought it would solve this!! Marc, do you think the boo "overpowered" his core? 
Title: Re: ohhhhh! The Carnage!!!
Post by: Tom Leemans on October 13, 2009, 01:05:04 pm
That's why I asked how thick the boo was.
Title: Re: ohhhhh! The Carnage!!!
Post by: DanaM on October 13, 2009, 01:14:54 pm
I feel your pain I just broke one today. I'll get pics up when I can
Title: Re: ohhhhh! The Carnage!!!
Post by: Easternarcher on October 13, 2009, 01:51:29 pm
That's why I asked how thick the boo was.

I'll check it when I get home tonite.
Title: Re: ohhhhh! The Carnage!!!
Post by: knightd on October 13, 2009, 02:23:34 pm
Ive made BBI that the boo is thicker than the core and havent had any trouble..  ;)
Title: Re: ohhhhh! The Carnage!!!
Post by: M-P on October 13, 2009, 03:07:45 pm
It looks to me like the backing had a small defect at the top edge ( in the picture.)  That defect plus the run off in the belly probably combined to cause the break.  The pictures look mostly like a tension failure to me, so I would blame the backing first.   Ron
Title: Re: ohhhhh! The Carnage!!!
Post by: adb on October 14, 2009, 12:47:21 am
I've had bamboo fail on BBIs, just like that.
Title: Re: ohhhhh! The Carnage!!!
Post by: Rich Saffold on October 14, 2009, 01:22:19 am
When they go with a "bang" its the bamboo, and I do think you probably overcooked it a bit.
Title: Re: ohhhhh! The Carnage!!!
Post by: Easternarcher on October 14, 2009, 07:37:47 am
just curious, how thick was the boo?

Update on thicknesses.
Boo was 0.173in. at the point of the break...
IPE was 0.225 at the same location.

I think a combination of grain run-off and possible fault in the boo backing caused all this. Sure woulda made a nice bow...
But I'm back in the saddle so to speak. Straigthening a piece of Osage with better grain BTW right now. Will be glued-up tonite. Clean-up and start tillering tomorrow nite. This bow must be completed by the weekend. I promised! :P
Title: Re: ohhhhh! The Carnage!!!
Post by: medicinewheel on October 14, 2009, 07:50:15 am

Glued up a blank in a hurry last sunday.
Maybe....just MAYBE I will be able to save it and turn it into a bow!
When you are in a rush, the wood becomes your enemy,
no matter laminated or self bow,
No matter which part of the whole process you might be in!
(After 24h the glue might not even be cured well enough)
JMO!
Good luck if you try anyway.
Title: Re: ohhhhh! The Carnage!!!
Post by: Easternarcher on October 14, 2009, 09:05:10 am

Glued up a blank in a hurry last sunday.
Maybe....just MAYBE I will be able to save it and turn it into a bow!
When you are in a rush, the wood becomes your enemy,
no matter laminated or self bow,
No matter which part of the whole process you might be in!
(After 24h the glue might not even be cured well enough)
JMO!
Good luck if you try anyway.

If the glue-up was sitting at room temp. I'd agree with you, but I throw the whole thing in the hotbox at 120-140deg. overnight, so from what I understand....that should do it.
Yes, I must be careful with what I do here...stay tuned!
Title: Re: ohhhhh! The Carnage!!!
Post by: 1/2primitive on October 14, 2009, 05:07:37 pm
Question: was the bamboo completely flat on the inside? Or was there a little bit of concavity to it when you glued it up?
      Sean
Title: Re: ohhhhh! The Carnage!!!
Post by: Easternarcher on October 14, 2009, 07:45:33 pm
Question: was the bamboo completely flat on the inside? Or was there a little bit of concavity to it when you glued it up?
      Sean

No concavity. As flat as I could make it on the belt sander.