Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: Swamp Bow on September 29, 2009, 11:30:33 pm
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Hi all,
I'm working toward a 120#+ warbow. It will be a while before I end up with what I want since I am starting with a 60+/- Victorian style longbow and I will make the next level bow as I outgrow whatever the current bow(s) I'm using at the time. I'll be going nice and slow since I've had a touch of rotator issues in the past, nothing serious as it turned out, but I want to make sure I don't resurrect long buried demons. What kind of exercises can I do to strengthen my body in order to draw the heavier bows. Also can someone point me toward "proper" draw technique info for a war bow. I'm a visual learner, so prefer something with photos or illustrations along with written descriptions, but I'll take whatever I can get. I have no problem with going through 4-5 bows to do this. I figure that a two year goal should be attainable. Thanks
Swamp
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Do some google searching, and also youtube. There are some excellent vids. You'll get better and stronger at shooting, by doing more shooting. Work your way up slowly to avoid injury. There is a good short vid on youtube called: distance shooting with an english warbow... check it out.
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Thanks adb.
I'll dig a bit deeper. I've seen some really nice footage, but had not seen anything that explained what was happening. I'll check out that vid. I wasn't sure if shooting lighter bows (40#-55#) would let me get away with stuff that will hurt me if I try to bump it up even a little at a time. Plus I see no reason to reinvent this particular wheel. plenty of other wheel that still need that. I'm at the point where I don't even know the right questions to ask. You know how it is, in six months, I'll realize that if I had asked "that" question I'd have saved myself a lot of trouble. :-\ Thanks again.
Swamp
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Dunno if you are old enough to remember the old Bullworker chest expanders?...Charles Atlas and all that stuff?
There is a trick to pulling them and it's simialr for a longbow. Start with both hands down near your your belt buckle, pull your arms up, back and away from each other, breathing in, expanding your chest and pushing it out in one big smooth expansive movement. Some do a simialr technique but starting with the hands high. I start low as having the arrow pointing down is safer.
Both arms shoulders etc work together. None of this holding the bow and pulling the string back nonsense...
Anyhow, you could get/make/find a chest expander... make one from old inner tube.
Del
(Usual terms conditions and disclaimers apply!)
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Besides just shooting I would recommend doing upper back and shoulder exercises. Low row, upright rows, and shoulder presses will strengthen the muscles you use during drawing. These could be done with barbells, dumbbells, or stretch cords.
swimbill
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Thanks everyone.
adb:
Looked at that vid, that helps. I think I'll probably peak at around 120#. I do enough stupid stuff to my body as it is! ::)
Swamp
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"None of this holding the bow and pulling the string back nonsense.".
I fail to see how this is nonsense, it's the tried and true method
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"None of this holding the bow and pulling the string back nonsense.".
I fail to see how this is nonsense, it's the tried and true method
According to who exactly? ???
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"None of this holding the bow and pulling the string back nonsense.".
I fail to see how this is nonsense, it's the tried and true method
What do you understand this to mean?
I teach fundamentals to a lot of folks and the most common error is that they try to aim the arrow and pull the string back with their hands utilising a small muscle set and an inefficient lever.
This is a common but relatively weak primitive method, which is effective only with a bow weak enough that you can do it without struggling.
But it also has the draw back of inhibiting the ability to extend fully and make a direct line of force through the shot.
With a heavy bow however, it is better that you draw the bow using your back muscles and come to your alignment and aim as you hit your anchor and draw-weight.
Whether it be a hunting weight or a fighting weight, the object is to do the least work in the most efficient way possible, to conserve energy and maintain control.
This will not be achieved by drawing with your hands.
A good device for embedding a strong draw not utilising the hands is to use a Formaster harness or similar device, but I would hesitate to recommend that his be used with a really heavy draw weight, since the regular model might be unsafe at high draw weights, but it could be useful in embedding an efficient habit using a lower weight bow and then working up in draw weight in a progressive manner by shooting a heavier bow.
I suppose that the old way is to master a bow that is a little too heavy at a fairly young age and having mastered it go to a heavier bow.
And to repeat this pattern over and again.
But this could involve going through quite a few bows, which could be economically difficult.
What is today looked upon as classic form in actual fact derives from how a heavy bow should be handled efficiently, but usually without pushing draw weight to anything like it's highest limit.
But this does engender the use of a more efficient, rather than a physically/mechanically less efficient method which has the additional benefit of creating a direct line of force through the shot.
It is also clear that some of the blokes currently shooting the heavy bow are struggling a little more than they might due to a tendency to use the back muscles less than they should and the hands more than they ought to.
And that anyone who still has their drawing side wrist bent at their anchor, has not reached full draw and will not do so until the wrist is relaxed and the arm extended until the drawing side elbow is in line with the shaft.
Rod.
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Swamp
I found that using a bow trainer like the one in the photos, has been a great help in increasing draw weight. It is made from elastic bungee cord from a DIY store and a section of hollow bamboo, with some tape around the elastic to protect your drawing fingers. The section of bamboo for the handle helps to protect the bow hand and make the whole thing more comfortable.
(http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr65/epnwarner/Warbow%20Trainer/IMGP1564.jpg)
Once you can comfortably draw the weight many times over you just add another loop to the set up.
It is not the same as drawing a bow of the same weight due to stacking etc but it is a cheap easy thing to use, and use anywhere.
Having a few loose loops allows you to warm up before drawing the big bundle (then bundle + loose loops!).
Other exercises I have found useful are bent over rows, pull ups and triceps exercises for your bow arm (to stop it collapsing). These have been recommended to me by archers who know far more about this sort of thing than I.
By taking it fairly steady but increasing the weights over the last year these have all worked for me.
Purbeck
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Some people are making this more complicated than neccessary, the bow itself is the best resistance training device, it trains all the muscles used in pulling the bow, pretty simple to continue to graduate to heavy bows, warm up before exertion, practise holding until it is effortless-as has been practised for ages, I have seen nothing that improves on this age old method, although there is some marketing gimmicks that suggest otherwise
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"None of this holding the bow and pulling the string back nonsense.".
I fail to see how this is nonsense, it's the tried and true method
Not for high draw weight warbows, in my opinion....
The expression was intended to convey a little humour.... maybe there's a language barrier.
But, whatever... I have no axe to grind
(Search Youtube for the many warbow videos...I don't think you'll see any holding the bow out and then doing all the work with the right arm.
but I'm quite happy to be proved wrong...)
Del
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Del the cat and Rod.
Is it this draw your talking about. Looks really efficient and natural in some way. How about using it on lower weight Bows. I'm a beginner at shooting and was thinking of giving at try.
Look at 2.40 in the vid. I especially like that draw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ_dX3sFrFM
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Del the cat and Rod.
Is it this draw your talking about. Looks really efficient and natural in some way. How about using it on lower weight Bows. I'm a beginner at shooting and was thinking of giving at try.
Look at 2.40 in the vid. I especially like that draw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ_dX3sFrFM
Of course, learning this technique on a lower draw weight bow is the only way you will learn it as long as the bow is tillered to 32". Then once mastered up the draw weights.
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Besides,
Using the argument that you need to graduate to higher draw weight bows gives you another excuse to buy another bow:)
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Del the cat and Rod.
Is it this draw your talking about. Looks really efficient and natural in some way. How about using it on lower weight Bows. I'm a beginner at shooting and was thinking of giving at try.
Look at 2.40 in the vid. I especially like that draw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ_dX3sFrFM
Yeah that's the sort of thing...I don't camp it up quite as much myself (ooooh! ::)) but that's the sort of style... I have been known to overact by drawing in a huge noisey breath as I draw....ooooff :-[
In the vid, he seems to start low, go high and then come back down into the draw which seems a tad overblown..and all that leaping forwards after the arrow is barking mad IMHO (some will insists it gives them longer range, but I'm skeptical)
Find what works for you..don't injure yourself, but if you take care (maybe warm up a little) your body and the bow should tell you the best way for you.
Del
Del
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Ok thanks! Del
This guy is basically doing the same thing as I see it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtTyOf8OCKg
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Del the cat and Rod.
Is it this draw your talking about. Looks really efficient and natural in some way. How about using it on lower weight Bows. I'm a beginner at shooting and was thinking of giving at try.
Look at 2.40 in the vid. I especially like that draw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ_dX3sFrFM
Yeah that's the sort of thing...I don't camp it up quite as much myself (ooooh! ::)) but that's the sort of style... I have been known to overact by drawing in a huge noisey breath as I draw....ooooff :-[
In the vid, he seems to start low, go high and then come back down into the draw which seems a tad overblown..and all that leaping forwards after the arrow is barking mad IMHO (some will insists it gives them longer range, but I'm skeptical)
Find what works for you..don't injure yourself, but if you take care (maybe warm up a little) your body and the bow should tell you the best way for you.
Del
Del
he is not actually physically leaping forward, this is a result of shooting a heavy bow in this case Glen is shooting a bow nearly 130lb and he is putting so much into the distance shot that this is the result, he could not force himself to stop this movement, he also knows how to shoot distance as he was the record holder for shooting the EWBS Livery arrow furthest untill only a couple of weeks ago.
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Ok thanks! Del
This guy is basically doing the same thing as I see it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtTyOf8OCKg
the guy in this vid is Kevin Hicks and the he is primarily a target archer and a very good one, just look at the difference inthe draw length, Glen behind his ear and Kevin to the Jaw line, that is quite a big difference.
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Yewboy
Yes I noticed the shorter draw. I just think his draw is kind of the same thing. Starts high etc..Thats what I meant with basically. However it looks very good to me and think I gonna try it to start with.
Thanks!
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he is not actually physically leaping forward, this is a result of shooting a heavy bow in this case Glen is shooting a bow nearly 130lb and he is putting so much into the distance shot that this is the result, he could not force himself to stop this movement, he also knows how to shoot distance as he was the record holder for shooting the EWBS Livery arrow furthest untill only a couple of weeks ago.
Glen shot a fine shot at Batsford this year and was the well deserved winner of the Livery with his super fast Italian yew bow. However, this was never the record distance. It is, and remains, 272 yards and was shot by Al at the Welsh Borders shoot on the 1st February this year with his self yew bow.
Results here...
http://www.englishwarbowsociety.com/welshbordersshoot.html
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he is not actually physically leaping forward, this is a result of shooting a heavy bow in this case Glen is shooting a bow nearly 130lb and he is putting so much into the distance shot that this is the result, he could not force himself to stop this movement, he also knows how to shoot distance as he was the record holder for shooting the EWBS Livery arrow furthest untill only a couple of weeks ago.
I did say it was just my opinion...however Sir Isac Newton would probably agree with me too, action and reaction are equal and opposite.
Think about it...the bow limbs, string and arrow are all going forward...guess which way the reaction will be?
I'm not saying he's not a great archer, distance shot or anything else...we all have our own stlye, just giving my personal view... I have no axe to grid. But if you want to argue it over a pint sometime I'd be more than happy.
Actually... just look at the video again... in the first shot there is no 'leap forward' at all and again at 2:41a higher trajectory shot (this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ_dX3sFrFM ),
Quad erat demonstrandum.
Del
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The same guys who use this "leaping forward" technique say they get better distance than when they don't use it; if this isn't an indication that the technique works, I don't know what is. This is a subject that has been covered before on the forum, in a different thread.
Dave
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Del the cat and Rod.
Is it this draw your talking about. Looks really efficient and natural in some way. How about using it on lower weight Bows. I'm a beginner at shooting and was thinking of giving at try.
Look at 2.40 in the vid. I especially like that draw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ_dX3sFrFM
What I notice in this video more than anything is looking at the the three blokes shooting together.
I notice that Steve is "sitting" slightly as he comes to full draw which is something I do myself in certain situations, and interestingly enough, a technique espoused by some Oriental teaching on handling a war bow.
No doubt influenced by horseback archery usage, but applied in some schools of archery on foot.
But what I notice more than anything is who makes the least fuss and display of effort.
To me this is a sign of control always assuming that the arrow consistently confirms this view.
Not to say that someone with a more fussy, less economic style could not be as accurate, but in the long run, I think it less likely.
If we look at the draw of Ratty that features on his posts, we will see that he draws with his wrist bent.
Not the worst or most blatant example, but he retains a little of this right up to his loose.
This is a sure indicator of slightly too much use of the hand, too little use of the back and not quite achieving full extension and a straight line of force.
Not an extreme examople, admittedly, and it does not imply that he does not have control, just that he is doing more work than he needs to and doing that work in a slightly less efficient manner.
And giving up some draw length.
Rod.
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Ok thanks! Del
This guy is basically doing the same thing as I see it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtTyOf8OCKg
the guy in this vid is Kevin Hicks and the he is primarily a target archer and a very good one, just look at the difference inthe draw length, Glen behind his ear and Kevin to the Jaw line, that is quite a big difference.
"Primarily a target archer and a very good one" ?
He is looking at the gold shape and hitting around the perimeter of it instead of looking at the center and hitting the centre.
But what you say about the draw length is true enough...
Rod.
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The same guys who use this "leaping forward" technique say they get better distance than when they don't use it; if this isn't an indication that the technique works, I don't know what is. This is a subject that has been covered before on the forum, in a different thread.
Dave
That may well be the case for flight shooting, but I didn't think that's what the original question was about?
Hey ho, I think I shall just scamper off to my secret cat nest and have a nap.
Del
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I'm inclined to think that there is a degree of confusion about this leaping habit.
Some folks might see the evidence of longer shots and copy the "leaping" part, when they would probably do better to copy the dynamic extension, cleaner loose and bow hand push co-ordinated with the loose.
In a way it is like some target shooters who think that if they touch their shoulder after the loose they have made a proper shot, when what most of them are doing is to execute the shot badly and then affecting a stylised imitation of the natural consequence of shooting with rearward extension and a relaxed wrist.
The leaping, if overdone and combined with a premature and excessive throwing out of line could detract from the distance achieved in the same way that it would affect accuracy if shooting at a mark.
Rod.
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Del the cat and Rod.
Is it this draw your talking about. Looks really efficient and natural in some way. How about using it on lower weight Bows. I'm a beginner at shooting and was thinking of giving at try.
Look at 2.40 in the vid. I especially like that draw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ_dX3sFrFM
What I notice in this video more than anything is looking at the the three blokes shooting together.
I notice that Steve is "sitting" slightly as he comes to full draw which is something I do myself in certain situations, and interestingly enough, a technique espoused by some Oriental teaching on handling a war bow.
No doubt influenced by horseback archery usage, but applied in some schools of archery on foot.
But what I notice more than anything is who makes the least fuss and display of effort.
To me this is a sign of control always assuming that the arrow consistently confirms this view.
Not to say that someone with a more fussy, less economic style could not be as accurate, but in the long run, I think it less likely.
If we look at the draw of Ratty that features on his posts, we will see that he draws with his wrist bent.
Not the worst or most blatant example, but he retains a little of this right up to his loose.
This is a sure indicator of slightly too much use of the hand, too little use of the back and not quite achieving full extension and a straight line of force.
Not an extreme examople, admittedly, and it does not imply that he does not have control, just that he is doing more work than he needs to and doing that work in a slightly less efficient manner.
And giving up some draw length.
Rod.
hello all :)
i think it would be fair to explain that the bow i am shooting here was 138# at 32 inches at the time.
my wrist angle is a result of shooting flat in the clip, you may also notice my bow elbow is bent ( not locked out), the angle of my wrist and elbow help
to relieve pressure on my bow shoulders rotator cuff.. you may notice my bow arm and draw arm decend at the end of the draw to open the last bit of the bow.
most of my draw comes from the rotation of my shoulders more so than my bicep.
ps. i'm quite satified with my technique. it serves me well, and has enabled me to reach some good bow weights ;) although i will say the larger the draw weight the larger the compression forces which reduce my draw length. ;)
here's a different angle vid with a 133# @ 32" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wBdXcbxrJg&feature=channel_page (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wBdXcbxrJg&feature=channel_page)
pps. i am 5ft 9 inch tall and my current weight is 13 and a 1/2 stone.
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Don't feel that you are being singled out for criticism, there is scarcely anyone who does not have some peculiarity that could be commented upon, myself included.
The comment on the wrist being bent does not refer to your bow-hand but to the drawing hand.
In this case where the wrist remains bent it is a proof that some work is being done by the drawing hand that might better be done by the back.
Your comments are noted and entirely reasonable in context, but it does not invalidate the observation.
Compare the alignment of your drawing side forearm in relation to the line of the shaft at full draw, both from the side and from behind at full draw, to others who are better or worse in this respect and form your own opinion.
I know that in my own shooting I have more control over the draw and where the arrow goes when I make a direct line of force through the shot.
It goes without saying that it is physically harder to make a full extension when you push the draw-weight that you can manage.
All the more reason to consider matters of form and see if there is a possible benefit to be obtained.
I know that I am never complacent about my form and regard it always as a work in progress.
It also begs the question of what draw-weight allows full extension at this stage of the game.
This applies to anyone who is pushing their draw-weight, whatever their comfort zone.
Rod.
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I think the comments about an in-line wrist/forearm/arrow come from a low draw weight and (relative) short draw length perspective unless you have long arms. The ‘vicarage lawn’ style will need to be adapted to accommodate a long draw for many archers. Firstly, as Ratty says, decent draw-weights compress the body and reduce draw length at the same 'anchor point' (for want of a better expression) compared to low sub 100lb weight bows.
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q280/yeomanbowman/simoms.jpg)
Look at this image of Simon Stanley, notice how his forearm drops below the level on the arrow. Anything else would shorten his draw-length and thus reduce the power and effectiveness. Look at this medieval image and notice the parallels in forearm position.
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q280/yeomanbowman/frontnock.jpg)
This method is the only way I can get to a 33" draw as long as the warbow is at the lighter end of proper weights, however, at a decent weight this drops to 32" absolute max. (http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q280/yeomanbowman/mewithashbow.jpg)
It is very difficult for me to prove but I find it hard to believe there was one universal style of draw in the medieval/Tudor period. Ascham breaks it down but there is still room for variation yet conform to his good practice. I’m sure there are definitely universally bad ways to do it but I think that body type must play a part. Look at modern sports and look at how many different techniques there are to complete a given task. For example, in powerlifting there is a regular style deadlift and the sumo style too. Which one is right depends on your limbs and torso.
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As you say, what you describe is a natural consequence of drawing to a length that is greater than the length you can achieve whilst remaining in-line.
What I was describing was the means of drawing efficiently, not the consequence of drawing beyond your in-line draw-length.
In this case the difficulty in control is one of allowing rotation in the loose which can be prone to throwing the string hand up or out as the elbow goes round or down out of line during the loose.
Given that my corner of the mouth length is a little over 29" I would not have too much trouble holding a line at 32", whereas someone with shorter arms might be obliged to roll out of line with this shaft length.
This rotation off-line then comes into play for me at draw-lengths longer than 32".
Whilst it is true that post Horace Ford the shorter draw has become the prevalent style in lawn archery, it should perhaps be noted that the long draw is not entirely unknown still in these quarters, but that the shorter draw is employed where ease of precise alignment under the dominant eye is prioritised over maximising cast.
But this is only of any real benefit to those who can also control their length and loose and consequently have precise control over their arrow speed, and still have sufficient cast to obtain a useful mark.
It can also be noted that amongst heavy bow shooters, the draw weight itself is often instrumental in pulling the wrist into line during the draw, which is as it should be if the draw is intitiated with a bent wrist.
That someone with shorter arms or a shaft longer than their in line draw, is obliged go through from being in-line to out of line as they rotate the elbow out of line through the loose is another matter entirely, and only natural, since you can only go so far back in-line until you are obliged to drop or take the elbow round out of line.
As it affects accuracy the trick is then to let the elbow go round or down in further extension without throwing the hand out of line before the arrow departs.
Rod.
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Swamp Bow, Technique is important. A relatively small man with proper technique and practice can out draw a muscle man, with no technique and practice, any day of the week. If you are determined and, shoot a lot, these things will come to you as naturally as learning to walk. I have never found one exercise that can truly prepare you for shooting a heavy bow other than shooting a heavy bow. However you have to get yourself into some kind of shape to even start on that journey. One thing I found when I was starting out is that there is no one set of muscles that you can develop alone. It has to be the whole body, even the legs. A form of exercise that, to me anyway, was as beneficial as anything is the simple push-up. You carry the equipment with you and can drop and crank out fifty or more in less than a minute, done throughout the day, and varying the placement of your hands, far apart, close together, ahead of your body mass, on flat hands, on your fists, the variety is endless. Always use good form and technique, slacking only cheats yourself. The thing is you don't want to build one line of muscle, spread the wealth. You can do it anywhere, who cares what people think. Another thing I use to do was grab two or three bows of lesser weight and practice drawing, its terribly uncomfortable, but makes handling A single heavy bow seem so much more manageable. I hope this helps a little, and good luck!
Robby
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hello Swamp Bow ;)
here's my tip.
do regular exercise to keep fit ,and shoot regular. increase your bow weight when you feel confident.
draw as large as you can. ive been known to draw & shoot arrows of over 34" and i'm 5ft 9"
as seen in this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlBUlQ0vvLw&feature=player_profilepage# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlBUlQ0vvLw&feature=player_profilepage#)
respond to your bodys pain, and adjust your shooting accordingly. :)
copying other peoples shooting techniques is a good idea, there are plenty of vids on youtube to watch. :)
there are many better archers than my self, and many not as good, but with better technical techniques. so i think its a thing you need to develop intune with your own body
anyway goodluck. 8)
ps. i completely agree with this statement by yeomanbowman .
(It is very difficult for me to prove but I find it hard to believe there was one universal style of draw in the medieval/Tudor period.)
here's one of my favorite paintings of medieval archers about to draw there bows
[IMG]http://picture removed due to possible copyright issues
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Robby/Ratty, I think you are right. Lots of shooting with lower poundage bows, and limited "pushing it" with higher poundage bows. I'll just take it nice and slow.
Been an interesting discussion all the way around. Carry on...
Thanks
Swamp
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hello Swamp Bow ;)
here's my tip.
do regular exercise to keep fit ,and shoot regular. increase your bow weight when you feel confident.
draw as large as you can. ive been known to draw & shoot arrows of over 34" and i'm 5ft 9"
as seen in this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlBUlQ0vvLw&feature=player_profilepage# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlBUlQ0vvLw&feature=player_profilepage#)
respond to your bodys pain, and adjust your shooting accordingly. :)
copying other peoples shooting techniques is a good idea, there are plenty of vids on youtube to watch. :)
there are many better archers than my self, and many not as good, but with better technical techniques. so i think its a thing you need to develop intune with your own body
anyway goodluck. 8)
ps. i completely agree with this statement by yeomanbowman .
(It is very difficult for me to prove but I find it hard to believe there was one universal style of draw in the medieval/Tudor period.)
here's one of my favorite paintings of medieval archers about to draw there bows
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o77/sgt-ratman/Image3.jpg)
Hi Simon,
I have been searching for that picture of the archers drawing-up for ages. Where does it come from exactly? I remember it from the old warbow forum.
Dave
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That's the picture featured in Strickland and Hardy's book, where Strickland says that he thinks it an artistic misrepresentation and not a practical method of drawing a heavy bow.
Which would be news to an oriental warrior, although the representation here is too vertical and leaning back to be considered an accurate representation.
Whilst there are probably as many variations in technique and preferences as there are archers, what always remains are methods that are mechanically/physically advantageous using our physical structure which can usefully define our preferences.
At the end of the day it's all about context. There is no method you can come up with however peculiar, that has not probably been a legitimate method somewhere, someplace, sometime.
But in the real world when a culture using a weak method meets an aggressive culture using a strong method, the weak change their ways or go under.
By any useful definition, a strong method will provide the mechanical/physical least work solution that minimises effort and so enhances endurance and control.
To my mind this is the soundest basis for a preference.
Rod.
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Yeah its also interesting to see that the bows are inside out with the white sap wood on the inside or belly and the red heart wood on the back of the bow, Just goes to show you can't always trust in Naiive art from the period.
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That and the fact that the arrows are yet again on the wrong side of the bow... ;-)
Rod.
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Yeah its also interesting to see that the bows are inside out with the white sap wood on the inside or belly and the red heart wood on the back of the bow, Just goes to show you can't always trust in Naiive art from the period.
i agree steve.
ive often thought about this shooting from the right had side of the bow and the 2 fingered draw.
in some pictures / paintings a thumb draw can look very much like the 2 fingerd draw, and and viser verser, coupled with shooting from the right hand side of the bow makes me wonder if there is some link or influence to the painters at the time period that we dont know about.
(not for one second am i saying this is fact, but it has been food for thought for me)
as for the bows being insideout you've got me there lol. seems to be a commen misstake for artists of the period.
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Ratty, That is a really cool video on your signature, makes me want to go uot and shoot some more!
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How can a medieval painting be subject to copyright? ???
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The painting is not and cannot be subject to copyright, but the image used may well be subject to its own copyright.
Craig.
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The painting is not and cannot be subject to copyright, but the image used may well be subject to its own copyright.
Craig.
Yes but it is EXTREMELY difficult to verify the origin of a digital image; even a fractional resizing and/or cropping of the image makes it essentially untraceable!
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Yeah its also interesting to see that the bows are inside out with the white sap wood on the inside or belly and the red heart wood on the back of the bow, Just goes to show you can't always trust in Naiive art from the period.
i agree steve.
ive often thought about this shooting from the right had side of the bow and the 2 fingered draw.
in some pictures / paintings a thumb draw can look very much like the 2 fingerd draw, and and viser verser, coupled with shooting from the right hand side of the bow makes me wonder if there is some link or influence to the painters at the time period that we dont know about.
(not for one second am i saying this is fact, but it has been food for thought for me)
as for the bows being insideout you've got me there lol. seems to be a commen misstake for artists of the period.
It is probably nothing more than either laxity in the part of the artist or an inconsistent hang over from the old convention of having the subject matter facing the viewer.
But I think it more likely to be carelessness and not considering it important enough to worry about on the part of the artist.
Rod.
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As for the origin of the picture:
Martin le Franc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Le_Franc): Le Champion des dames
Bibliotheque royale de Belgique, about 1441/1442
Source: The Great Warbow (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Warbow-Robert-Hardy/dp/0750931671) by Hardy, Strickland
Regards,
Heiner
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As for the origin of the picture:
Martin le Franc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Le_Franc): Le Champion des dames
Bibliotheque royale de Belgique, about 1441/1442
Source: The Great Warbow (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Warbow-Robert-Hardy/dp/0750931671) by Hardy, Strickland
Regards,
Heiner
Thanks Heiner! :) That's the info that I was looking for.
Cheers, Dave
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Glad I could help!