Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Easternarcher on September 10, 2009, 08:43:58 am

Title: I wanna make a horse bow(I think)
Post by: Easternarcher on September 10, 2009, 08:43:58 am
I know this is simply an experiment to see if I can accomplish this task. These bows are highly labour intensive and I may have to cut a few corners, since the genuine naterials are scarce in these parts.

Typically they are composite bows made with horn on the belly(nearly impossible to get here), wood core (that I can do) and sinew for the back (also near impossible to find).  I'm thinking I could substitute rawhide for the sinew and use ipe as the belly lam making a lightweight core of bamboo or maple.

Question comes to mind....how strong is rawhide in relation to sinew and can it hold up to the high R/D of an Asian horsebow?
Also, the tips are reinforced with bone slats on the sides...what glue could I use to hold them on? epoxy? or other???
Title: Re: I wanna make a horse bow(I think)
Post by: Pat B on September 10, 2009, 11:05:17 am
I would say the rawhide and sinew have two dofferent purposes and properties. Rawhide will make a good covering for the sinew but won't add performance.  It will help to hold an unassisted back together but it will not add anything else. The sinew on the back and the horn on the belly , along with the highly reflexed profile is where you get the performance from a horn bow.
  If you use hide glue for the rest of the bow it should work fine with the bone also.
Title: Re: I wanna make a horse bow(I think)
Post by: Easternarcher on September 10, 2009, 11:22:27 am
I would say the rawhide and sinew have two dofferent purposes and properties. Rawhide will make a good covering for the sinew but won't add performance.  It will help to hold an unassisted back together but it will not add anything else. The sinew on the back and the horn on the belly , along with the highly reflexed profile is where you get the performance from a horn bow.
  If you use hide glue for the rest of the bow it should work fine with the bone also.

Thanks Pat. I knew that about rawhide already. ::) Why didn't I think before I typed? DUH!!!! Too focused on construction I guess.

If there's any Canucks reading this, is there any Canadian sources for horn and sinew????
Title: Re: I wanna make a horse bow(I think)
Post by: kylerprochaska on September 10, 2009, 11:53:46 am
Ive also been wanting to make one...but I lack the experience to know the steps....If you're having a hard time finding horn though...ebay has a nice selection of gemsbock horns...but it looks pretty tough to find a matching pair...

-Ky
Title: Re: I wanna make a horse bow(I think)
Post by: shikari on September 10, 2009, 12:46:54 pm
I bought some horn from a company called chisterine inc based out of buffalo,N Y,they have a canadian warehouse also I think as they have a 416 tel number listed for ordering in canada,the horhs i ordered cost 100 U.S and seem worth it to me,you could get sinew pretty easily in canada,If you have trouble finding deer or moose sinew use cow back sinew.
Title: Re: I wanna make a horse bow(I think)
Post by: bootboy on September 10, 2009, 02:40:51 pm
china town
Title: Re: I wanna make a horse bow(I think)
Post by: radius on September 10, 2009, 02:58:21 pm
sounds more like you wanna make a recurve with spliced-on tips
Title: Re: I wanna make a horse bow(I think)
Post by: Easternarcher on September 10, 2009, 03:52:43 pm
china town


We don't have a "Chinatown" in this town or province for that matter. ;D
Pretty integrated up here I guess.
Title: Re: I wanna make a horse bow(I think)
Post by: shikari on September 10, 2009, 04:37:39 pm
which area do you live in?
Title: Re: I wanna make a horse bow(I think)
Post by: Easternarcher on September 10, 2009, 05:54:57 pm
which area do you live in?


New Brunswick, Canada
Title: Re: I wanna make a horse bow(I think)
Post by: Dauntless on September 10, 2009, 06:27:08 pm
If you know anyone who hunts you can haggle for some sinew maybe.  As for horn: cow farms?
Title: Re: I wanna make a horse bow(I think)
Post by: Easternarcher on September 10, 2009, 07:15:18 pm
If you know anyone who hunts you can haggle for some sinew maybe.  As for horn: cow farms?

Problem is, cow horn will not work in this application they say. Also, You'd be hard pressed to find a cow on any farm here that hasn't had the horns nibbed off when they were calves. I'll keep looking into it I guess.
Thanks for the suggestions tho.
Title: Re: I wanna make a horse bow(I think)
Post by: Barrage on September 10, 2009, 07:27:01 pm
You can find bison or ibex horn on ebay.  And you should have some butchers around in NB that you could get sinew from.
Title: Re: I wanna make a horse bow(I think)
Post by: PatM on September 10, 2009, 07:45:46 pm
Adam Karpowicz lives in NB and he gets his hands on horn and sinew.
Title: Re: I wanna make a horse bow(I think)
Post by: JustAim on September 10, 2009, 08:04:23 pm
Cow horns wont work....they crack to easy. Heres another site you can buy horns from
http://www.boonetrading.com/Horns.html (http://www.boonetrading.com/Horns.html) ....alittle expensive but well worth it. l'm not going to tell you what to do with your bow, but dont cut corners when making horn bows. Get the best materials you can find, even if it means you have to spend alittle more. l've bought horns off ebay to save money and when l received them in the mail l wasnt too happy but l'm gonna work with them anyway, so l'll see how it goes. Good luck with your bow. :)  
Title: Re: I wanna make a horse bow(I think)
Post by: Easternarcher on September 10, 2009, 08:35:48 pm
Cow horns wont work....they crack to easy. Heres another site you can buy horns from
http://www.boonetrading.com/Horns.html (http://www.boonetrading.com/Horns.html) ....alittle expensive but well worth it. l'm not going to tell you what to do with your bow, but dont cut corners when making horn bows. Get the best materials you can find, even if it means you have to spend alittle more. l've bought horns off ebay to save money and when l received them in the mail l wasnt too happy but l'm gonna work with them anyway, so l'll see how it goes. Good luck with your bow. :)  

Dang, just checked out Boones(thanks Justaim!) Tehy seem to have exactly what I was looking for except sinew.
Gotta look into import laws at the border first tho. Canadian customs can get abit antsy by times.
Thank You!!!
Title: Re: I wanna make a horse bow(I think)
Post by: sulphur on September 10, 2009, 10:43:32 pm
you can buy unprocessed sinew from 3rivers archery.  its about \$3 for two hanks about 7 inches longs.  i've bought a bunch i still have to pound out and separate, but thats part of the fun!
Title: Re: I wanna make a horse bow(I think)
Post by: MaceG on September 10, 2009, 11:19:50 pm
       There's a good dvd at 3 Rivers called Asiatic Compound Bow. It's made by John Mcpherson and covers it pretty good.
Title: Re: I wanna make a horse bow(I think)
Post by: shikari on September 11, 2009, 01:21:00 am
like the chap said go for the best material you can get,you will not regret it in the long run,DO NOT GO FOR COW horn it is worthless,there was a gent called Eppo who made a fantastic horn composite a few years ago,ask him where he got his horn.
Title: Re: I wanna make a horse bow(I think)
Post by: Easternarcher on September 12, 2009, 02:11:00 pm
OK, now about the sinew.....the local butcher may be able to supply me with sinew from beef cows. but he says they only run 4-6" in length. I guess he just cuts em off anywhere and packs a bunch to be shipped to the pet food processor.

If this is all I can get, is it acceptable? I've seen youtube shots of sinew applied to bows that appeared to be like 16-20" long!
Do you simply but them together end to end then stagger the next layer so there are no butt joints all the way to the core surface OR do you sorta blend the fibers from one into the fibers of the next run and lay on the glue to saturate this joint??? How much do I need anyways? 2 tiers or three??

I don't know what he's gonna charge for these tendons, but likely the same as he gets from the processor. What's a fair price for sinew these days?

(Maybe I should stick with boo backed bows ::))
Thanks Guys
Title: Re: I wanna make a horse bow(I think)
Post by: JustAim on September 12, 2009, 02:56:39 pm
The longer the better for the limbs and the shorter pieces are used for the ends. Apply sinew just like you would if you were building a brick wall....stagger the pieces.
Heres another site that sells sinew and hide glue:  http://www.grannysstore.com/Wilderness_Survival/sinews_and_glue.htm (http://www.grannysstore.com/Wilderness_Survival/sinews_and_glue.htm)
Title: Re: I wanna make a horse bow(I think)
Post by: Easternarcher on September 12, 2009, 04:17:23 pm
The longer the better for the limbs and the shorter pieces are used for the ends. Apply sinew just like you would if you were building a brick wall....stagger the pieces.
Heres another site that sells sinew and hide glue:  http://www.grannysstore.com/Wilderness_Survival/sinews_and_glue.htm (http://www.grannysstore.com/Wilderness_Survival/sinews_and_glue.htm)


That's a really good site Justaim....but they don't ship to Canada...I'll have to bum the back sinews off some hunters this fall.
Title: Re: I wanna make a horse bow(I think)
Post by: JustAim on September 12, 2009, 10:08:43 pm
Quote
but they don't ship to Canada


They ship to canada. Scroll down the page and you'll see ''lnternational shipping'' on the right side of the page.
Title: Re: I wanna make a horse bow(I think)
Post by: Easternarcher on September 13, 2009, 07:50:02 am
Quote
but they don't ship to Canada


They ship to canada. Scroll down the page and you'll see ''lnternational shipping'' on the right side of the page.

Sorry, I was thinking of another supplier.  I guess they do ship to Canada.
Thanks
Title: Re: I wanna make a horse bow(I think)
Post by: Pat B on September 13, 2009, 11:40:50 am
Do you not have any game processors near you or have friends or friends of friends that hunt? In most of those cases the sinews go out with the bottom legs and guts. Probably free for the taking.
Title: Re: I wanna make a horse bow(I think)
Post by: Easternarcher on September 13, 2009, 04:58:21 pm
Do you not have any game processors near you or have friends or friends of friends that hunt? In most of those cases the sinews go out with the bottom legs and guts. Probably free for the taking.

PAt, I think I'll be talking to a few guys soon to save those tendons for me.
Title: Re: I wanna make a horse bow(I think)
Post by: Easternarcher on September 14, 2009, 08:15:33 am
 ;DJust talked to the butcher that I use for deer and moose.
Since moose season is coming up, he says he can get me a pile of moose leg sinew. Maybe free or minimal cost. ;D
I told him I'd take all he cared to save for me.