Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: MaceG on September 07, 2009, 03:38:20 am

Title: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: MaceG on September 07, 2009, 03:38:20 am
     Tried a red oak board bow. Had it tillered. Broke the second time I strung it. Just seemed wrong from the beginning. Flat, dry, coarse, dimensioned lumber with a barcode sticker. That ain't no way to start a bow.
     So today, I grabbed up my hatchet, climbed up a ditch bank, stuck my hand in god only knows what kind of poo, waded through the briars and weeds and chiggers and got me red maple to turn into staves.
     Came out scratched up, dirty and soaked with sweat.
     Now, that's the way to start a bow.
     There's a connection there you just can't get with a board.
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: youngbowyer33 on September 07, 2009, 09:26:02 am
its happened to many times,thats why i tried a board bow
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: El Destructo on September 07, 2009, 09:37:15 am
Ain't nothing wrong with Board Bows....Big Archery Companies made them ands sold them for Years ...mostly every Bow that was made for Hunting...Schools and Target Shooting when I was a Kid were all Board (dimensional lumber) Bows....may have been Hickory or Lemonwood....but a Board just the same.just have to pick a good Board....and coax the Bow from within it......JMO
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: JustAim on September 07, 2009, 10:07:47 am
l hear ya Mace. l've made a few board bows but l have way better luck with tree staves. And the adventure you had sounds alot like mine....just about a month ago l was out in the woods in 100 degree heat cutting down ash trees for firewood and bow staves, dripping in sweat and fighting off mosquitos when my chainsaw went psycho on me and damn near cut my foot off. Good times :D 
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: sailordad on September 07, 2009, 10:50:36 am
too bad a bot your bow,good luck with the staves
personaly, i think thers nothing like mking a board bow.
i prefer staves,but i can make a board bow soooo much quicker than from a stave
plus for about $10 i can make several board bows to help put those smiles, we all love so much, on other peoples faces :) ;)
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: Dauntless on September 07, 2009, 11:11:53 am
Chasing a ring on a board is a nice way of getting back to the "natural order" of a stave.

Cutting wood yourself can be a bit of an adventure.  Try doing it in the dead of night  >:D
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: Del the cat on September 07, 2009, 11:40:28 am
Yup...can't beat the price of a stave youve 'found' or cut yourself.
And splitting it is always exciting, will it twist or run off? where to make that split...?
You are starting the bow as soon as you see the tree or log, in immediate connection with the wood, it's just your job to tease the bow out of it.
Someone asked me if I was interested in buying a bow the other day...
I said..
'Buy...bow... ??? sorry I don't understand the concept  ::)' 
Tell us the price of that Maple again... Nuthin' ? Thought so, and you got some exercise too and avoided any domestic chores O:)...what a bargain   ;D
Del
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: MaceG on September 07, 2009, 11:57:02 am
   Exactly, Del.
A stave is like a daughter, a board is like your daughter's boyfriend.  ;D
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: nugget on September 07, 2009, 01:47:10 pm
I have not had good luck with board bows. I enjoy the whole process of taking a stave from a tree and making a bow out of it.
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: cracker on September 07, 2009, 01:58:44 pm
I like them both I think it may be a bit strange that the best bow I ever built was out of a board since I do lean a little toward a stave.Ronnie
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: Del the cat on September 07, 2009, 02:00:35 pm
A stave is like a daughter, a board is like your daughter's boyfriend.  ;D
<flump thud...falls off chair laughing>
Del
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: Justin Snyder on September 07, 2009, 02:20:37 pm
When you guys find an Ipe tree growing in your back yard let me know.  There are so many exceptional types of wood that don't grow everywhere that it would be really silly to handycap yourself by discriminating against boards.  Of course I look at it a little different. If you have a hard time with a board bow, I think you need to make more not less. Anything that is difficult makes you a better bowyer.

As for cost, well that is all perspective. A $4 board from the store on the corner is a lot cheaper than $20 worth of gas and 3 hours to go cut a tree. A trip to the hospital to take care of the hernia from loading that 600# log. Then you have time splitting, drying, chasing a ring, and that is all before you can start roughing it out.

If you aren't breaking a few you aren't pushing the enough.  Justin
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: woodstick on September 07, 2009, 03:48:00 pm
thats the way to do it right there. good luck.
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: JustAim on September 07, 2009, 04:52:22 pm
When you guys find an Ipe tree growing in your back yard let me know.  There are so many exceptional types of wood that don't grow everywhere that it would be really silly to handycap yourself by discriminating against boards.  Of course I look at it a little different. If you have a hard time with a board bow, I think you need to make more not less. Anything that is difficult makes you a better bowyer.

As for cost, well that is all perspective. A $4 board from the store on the corner is a lot cheaper than $20 worth of gas and 3 hours to go cut a tree. A trip to the hospital to take care of the hernia from loading that 600# log. Then you have time splitting, drying, chasing a ring, and that is all before you can start roughing it out.

If you aren't breaking a few you aren't pushing the enough.  Justin

l'm not speaking for anyone else but for me its cheaper and much more fun to cut down and split my own bow wood, since l live in the country l have to drive about 30 miles one way to find a store that sells decent wood for bow making. So its better for me to just walk out behind my house and cut a tree down, and l'm in no hurry to make bows away so waiting a few months for it to dry aint nothing. Ipe and osage are both excellent bow woods, but any decent bow wood can equal or out perform ipe or osage if made properly and l have great bow making woods just 50 yards from the house. And besides, l'm out there cutting firewood for winter anyway so why not...   


Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: MaceG on September 07, 2009, 05:02:46 pm
It's the closest a man can come to giving birth.  ;D
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: Barrage on September 07, 2009, 06:36:09 pm
Boards and staves - both started out from the same place... ;)
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: Grunt on September 07, 2009, 09:07:51 pm
I like to make both board and stave bows. Board bows are cheap to make easy to back and you can move right along with them. Stave bows take more time but I do get more of a feeling of accomplishment with a stave bow that I boned and rived out of a log, sealed, seasoned, and tillered into meat maker.
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: NTProf on September 07, 2009, 09:37:34 pm
Grunt: well-said!
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: Jesse on September 07, 2009, 10:12:45 pm
I like a good stave but I usually use boards because I like to make bamboo backed bows. 
Just aim. Just curious what you meant when you said any descent bow wood can outperform ipe or osage if made properly. I think that is true but only if the ipe bow is not made properly ;D If they are both made properly I dont think its a contest :) some descent bow woods cant handle the strain of high performance designs like ipe or osage can.
I just had to mess with ya :). I really dont care. Just make what you like  right? :)
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: Barrage on September 07, 2009, 10:55:30 pm
some descent bow woods cant handle the strain of high performance designs like ipe or osage can.

Man, the way everyone talks up Ipe (and Osage!), I need to get my hands on it and try it out one day!  Should be able to find Ipe at some of the better lumber places.  Osage would be tough to locate around here though...
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: El Destructo on September 08, 2009, 12:25:26 am
Where is....Around here?? You may never know what lurks in your Area...till you let people know where it may be..... :P
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: sailordad on September 08, 2009, 12:56:36 am
im gonna go out on a limb here(pun intended)
i'll bet hes from  TRAVIS,CALGARY ALBERTA CANADA
just a guess though ;)
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: MaceG on September 08, 2009, 02:32:14 am
Sharp eyes there, sailordad.
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: JustAim on September 08, 2009, 05:39:36 am
I like a good stave but I usually use boards because I like to make bamboo backed bows. 
Just aim. Just curious what you meant when you said any descent bow wood can outperform ipe or osage if made properly. I think that is true but only if the ipe bow is not made properly ;D If they are both made properly I dont think its a contest :) some descent bow woods cant handle the strain of high performance designs like ipe or osage can.
I just had to mess with ya :). I really dont care. Just make what you like  right? :)

You are correct, Jesse. l just meant that you dont have to have those two woods to make a good fast bow and dont need to spend money for it either. And l agree with you about it doesnt really matter...and to just have fun. :) 
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: The Gopher on September 08, 2009, 12:05:40 pm
i can understand the feeling of starting with a tree that you cut down and ending up with a finished bow from it but...

wood is wood and a bow is a bow. a board bow doesn't have to be "dimensional" nobody has ever said you can't chase a ring and follow the grain on a board bow, doing this can result in a snakey character bow just as easily as a stave can.

Cheaper to cut staves? maybe maybe not, if the tree is in your backyard then yes, do you have to drive to some wood lot, gas isn't free. chainsaw? i don't have one. on the other hand there is a hardwoods dealer 2 blocks from my place of employment, in my case board bows are way cheaper than staves, unless my generous friends give them to me  ;D

now having said all that, i prefer staves, its just not always the best option for me when i have to consider cost, time, etc.
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: MaceG on September 08, 2009, 12:45:15 pm
I'm not knocking board bows. The end result can be exceptional. It's just the process. Half the work has already been done for you. Just feels wrong.
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: Kent D. on September 08, 2009, 04:47:10 pm
I know what you mean.  Ive got several staves waiting for me.  Ones I had to kill myself to get to.  Several Osage and hackberry logs.  All the Osage is ready to go, when I get a chance.  The hackberry staves will not be ready for several more months.  I love the connection of starting with a tree, cutting it down and splitting it into staves, them making a bow from it.

Dont get me wrong, I love my ipe bamboo lam bows.  Nothing wrong with that at all.
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: George Tsoukalas on September 08, 2009, 10:31:22 pm
Nothing wrong with boards  provided you pick straight grained stock. More on my site. Jawge
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: osage outlaw on September 08, 2009, 11:47:03 pm
There is just something about walking through the woods looking for a "bow" tree to cut down and haul back to the house.  I am not sure walking down the lumber isle would yield the same feeling.  However, great bows can be made from both.  Just my 2 cent's.
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: J05H on September 09, 2009, 05:45:12 am
For me, a stave is the way to go. There are certain applications for which lumber is preferable but I like to build self bows though, and for that, you need a stave. I've tried making self bows from red oak and I haven't had much luck. Maybe it's 'cause I'm new. With a stave you kind of get in tune with the wood. With a board, it just feels like a chore.
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: sailordad on September 09, 2009, 06:21:59 pm
as long as you dant back a board with such things a bamboo etc
its still a self bow
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: J05H on September 10, 2009, 05:36:26 am
as long as you dant back a board with such things a bamboo etc
its still a self bow

I know that. I'm just saying that, In my opinion, staves are more suited for self bows.
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: Pappy on September 10, 2009, 06:57:07 am
Nothing wrong with boards,I love starves for selfbows and that's about all I make.You can make a fine bow from either.I have been pretty lucky,I have plenty of starves and have never had the need
for boards. I also can see the advantage in using a boards for someone that don't have the access
to staves,for us in the country it's not much of a problem but for others I understand.You can learn a lot from a board on tiller and lay out, witch will help you a lot when you get a good stave. I have to say as long as you are making bow from natural stuff you can't go wrong with either. To each there own ,the main thing is have fun with it. :) That is what this is all about. ;)
   Pappy
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: GregB on September 10, 2009, 08:13:16 am
Deadend conversation as far as I'm concerned...I've never made a bow from a board, they've all been from staves that we cut, split, and seasoned ourselves. Yeah, there's work and satisfaction involved in those processes, but I don't do it that way just for the satisfaction of doing it the hard way....I turn right around and use a bandsaw to rough the bow in and don't feel a bit of guilt for it.

As long as you're making a bow, it doesn't matter what form the material is in...either board or stave. Everyone works with what is available to them, and/or what works for them. It's all wood, and we're all individuals, and different personalities that we all have are what makes us who we are. Just make a bow I say!

We should however in my humble opinion be more sensitive to others feelings...don't make comments that might suggest that a bow made from a board is somehow less of an accomplishment then one from a stave. The person that spent many hours pouring themselves into making a bow from a board would probably take offense to that. Just like a negative comment about a "pretty" bow being somehow less of a performer then a plainer bow could be offensive to the person that spent an extra 10-12 hours turning their plain bow into one they personally felt more pride about for the end result. Some folks prefer rugged or plain...others want to throw some artful unique features into their hobby...to each their own. Doesn't make either one wrong or right...just what the individual wanted. Either way, each is capable of making meat if hunting is what you do...which is the case with me by the way! ;)
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: Justin Snyder on September 10, 2009, 09:16:27 am
but I don't do it that way just for the satisfaction of doing it the hard way....I turn right around and use a bandsaw to rough the bow in and don't feel a bit of guilt for it.

You always have been a rebel. I guess that is why we like you so much.  I think that is the joy of building your own bows. You can do whatever floats your boat. It doesn't have to be built to anyone else's specifications.
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: El Destructo on September 10, 2009, 09:07:11 pm
Could not have said it better if I spent a week writing it down Greg....you hit it right on the Head
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: MaceG on September 10, 2009, 09:15:48 pm
Staves, boards, sissy bows, it's all good. ;D
Nothing wrong with a preference. And I think we all know that an opinion is just an opinion.
I don't think anybody took offense. I hope not.
It was just meant as a lighthearted observation. :)

                             Peace
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: Pappy on September 11, 2009, 06:13:19 am
 :) :)   Took it that way. :)
  Pappy
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: GregB on September 11, 2009, 07:39:09 am
Quote
Could not have said it better if I spent a week writing it down Greg....you hit it right on the Head
Thanks Michael...was just trying to make a point as tactfully as I could. I had been giving that topic some thought here lately and saw my chance...

Quote
I don't think anybody took offense. I hope not.
No offense taken by me Mace...I've learned over the years that there are folks involved with this website from all over the world living in a lot of different situations or just with their own personal preferences. I have access to a lot of wood, all of it staves...but that is not the case with a lot of folks. If they want to make a bow it's either a board bow or a fair size investment in a stave without knowing for sure in all cases of its quality. I respect anyone out there making bows and enjoying their hobby. We're all friends here with a common interest and it spands oceans and languages...I think that is pretty cool. It's kind of like a smile, universal meaning throughout the world...making a bow and sharing that interest with others is like that for me. ;)
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: George Tsoukalas on September 11, 2009, 09:37:36 am
Nice post, Greg. No offense taken here either. :) Jawge
Title: Re: There's nothing like a stave
Post by: youngbowyer33 on September 11, 2009, 09:47:54 pm
greg you are a genius