Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: radius on July 19, 2009, 05:07:38 pm

Title: Rune bow---full draw
Post by: radius on July 19, 2009, 05:07:38 pm
While my holmegaard is recovering from its day at the spa, i started working on a new one, straight up longbow style.  Last night, my buddy said he wants me to make a bow for his dad, with magic runes on it.  I said, "Okay, but magic runes are extra!"

Here's the start.  This is my first go at a bow like this...

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Bow%20for%20Eric/Picture001.jpg)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Bow%20for%20Eric/Picture002.jpg)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Bow%20for%20Eric/Picture003.jpg)


this is fun!  At this point it is floor tillered, and i'm ready to sand it then get a string on there...
Title: Re: Rune bow
Post by: Cromm on July 19, 2009, 05:45:23 pm
Looking fine so far........
Title: Re: Rune bow
Post by: radius on July 19, 2009, 07:33:30 pm
hm...i've got it pulling a bit, but it torques in my hand because of the twist in the limb...gonna reduce it some more, then steam and change it...
Title: Re: Rune bow
Post by: radius on July 20, 2009, 10:52:18 am
i had  a rune in mind for this bow, which i was sort of thinking about and picturing mentally while carving it.  On a break from the rasp, I googled runes and found the one i want.  Turns out, not only is it the first initial of my friend's dad (who's getting the bow) but it's meaning is Yew Tree.  Good medicine.

But the damn thing has a lot of twist!  The lower limb tip is turned about 90 degrees from the upper limb tip, so when i pull it it wants to turn.  I steamed it last night , but had a hard time getting the twist out of it.

What's the best way to remove twist?

thanks
radius
Title: Re: Rune bow---how to remove twist?
Post by: George Tsoukalas on July 20, 2009, 11:14:27 am
I never had much luck either. I just learned how to deal with the twist. Which way is it twisting? Counteract the twist by removing wood from the other side of both limbs. Jawge
Title: Re: Rune bow---how to remove twist?
Post by: radius on July 20, 2009, 11:17:53 am
ok Jawge, i'll give that a go...you see that line of knots down the back?  They're all good (minor nuisance) but just below the handle there's a big'un, and that's where it just veers off.  Should i remove wood from the opposite side of the knot area? 

Man, this yew is not easy!  Gonna be good, though!
Title: Re: Rune bow---how to remove twist?
Post by: dragonman on July 20, 2009, 05:31:54 pm
Good luck with that one!!! youre braver than me,
Title: Re: Rune bow---how to remove twist?
Post by: radius on July 20, 2009, 09:15:57 pm
ah, dude, board bows are definitely easier to tame...god i have a sloo of yew staves in the house, but not one is straight and knot free...yikes...lots of work, lots of work

Title: Re: Rune bow---how to remove twist?
Post by: George Tsoukalas on July 20, 2009, 09:42:56 pm
That is pretty severe on second thought. I once made a bow from a stave that twisted. Take your time. You can try to work with it like that. If it twists  to the left you can try to remove wood from the other or right side. Opposite of where it is twisting. It twists towards the weak side.  You won't take it all out. You may have more luck in removing the twist after getting the stave through floor tiller to make it thinner. I just saw you floor tillered it too. Do check the tiller from both sides. I think you said you wanted to make a longbow. Do you mean English longbow? I'd stick with a long flat bow. Sorry I can't help much from here. :) Jawge
Title: Re: Rune bow---how to remove twist?
Post by: radius on July 20, 2009, 10:01:46 pm
you think a flatbow would be more easier to work with, because of the twist?
Title: Re: Rune bow---how to remove twist?
Post by: Adam Keiper on July 20, 2009, 10:52:01 pm
The lighting in that pic makes it difficult to see how much twist there is.  But, to get the worst out, if you steam the whole stave for an hour and a half, you can pull it out and then QUICKLY clamp one end in a vise and then throw a big pipe wrench on the other.  Torque it like heck to straighten 'best you can, and use some rope to tie the pipe wrench off under stress.  You can do the same thing, too ,with dry heat, by working the limbs in sections and adding more torque as you go.  If it really has 90 degrees of twist, you're not going to get it all out, but you can probably get it to where it's manageable. 
Title: Re: Rune bow---how to remove twist?
Post by: Marc St Louis on July 20, 2009, 11:05:43 pm
Dry heat works well on Yew.  Just clamp the bow in a vise at the center and use a bar clamp at the tip.  Heat the wood and twist the bar clamp.  I think I wrote a tip on that in the latest issue of the magazine
Title: Re: Rune bow---how to remove twist?
Post by: radius on July 20, 2009, 11:51:35 pm
you mean like my 2' f-clamp?  that would have enough leverage, if i can make it stick...
Title: Re: Rune bow---how to remove twist?
Post by: radius on July 21, 2009, 03:56:56 am
so Marc, that's dry heat with oil?  Is it safe to do that on a big knot?  Seems like it might make it brittle...the stave twists at a considerable knot...
Title: Re: Rune bow---how to remove twist?
Post by: Marc St Louis on July 21, 2009, 06:41:25 pm
Any type of clamp as long as you can apply a twisting motion to the wood.  Avoid heating areas that have knots especially big ones as they are resistant to heat bending.  No oil and heat slowly
Title: Re: Rune bow---how to remove twist?
Post by: radius on July 21, 2009, 08:12:10 pm
ok thanks marc i'll try it...btw just splitting out the billets now...
Title: Re: Rune bow---how to remove twist?
Post by: radius on July 23, 2009, 07:53:17 am
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Bow%20for%20Eric/Picture004.jpg)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Bow%20for%20Eric/Picture005.jpg)

here it is, a little further along...i hung this weight off the end and used a heat gun to scorch the belly.



Thing came out straight.  I did this right before bed, so then i just left it overnight...see how much springback i get tomorrow...
Title: Re: Rune bow---how to remove twist?
Post by: radius on July 23, 2009, 08:23:46 am
100% springback, looks like...

the limb kinks out from a big knot...i heated the section below the knot until the wood bend straight...but this morning as soon as i lifted the weight off, it just resumed its normal shape...
Title: Re: Rune bow---how to remove twist?
Post by: GregB on July 23, 2009, 01:20:14 pm
Radius,
Something I've done before with osage that works when you don't have a form or heat gun and the such...

Suspend your bow above a stove burner on high about 12" or so and supported with books or whatever. Have the belly facing down toward the burner and I'd probably coat the belly surface and maybe some on the sides with cooking oil. Have the section of the bow where you want the bending to take place above the burner and heat until it's good and hot (judgement call...little trail and error). Have a leather pad on your knee and wear a pair of leather gloves. You might want a crescent wrench with leather in the claws to place to one side biting against the limb thickness to use to rotate the limb and remove propellor. Rotate the limb past where you want the final limb to be. You'll have to rotate and hold this position until the wood has cooled enough to retain the change. I have done this with osage in the past and added reflex by bending the bow across my knee and removed propellor at the same time by rotating the wood at the same time. Usually did this only by hand without the use of a wrench...only mentioned the wrench in case you needed more leverage. I'd have the wood thinned down to a floor tiller stage when doing this.

We now do this process with a heatgun and form...clamping where needed for reflex, or toward one edge or the other to rotate the limb and remove propellor.
Title: Re: Rune bow---how to remove twist?
Post by: radius on July 23, 2009, 07:45:09 pm
thanks greg...

the twist actually must have been relieved somewhat...i flattened the belly and torqued the sucker the other day...once i'm done my holmegaard i'll put the run on this one!  I mean, the rune...
Title: Re: Rune bow---how to remove twist?
Post by: radius on July 28, 2009, 03:18:52 am
well either through tillering or treating, somehow this bow doesn't torque like it did before...got it pulling 40# (target weight) at 16" now, from a 4" brace height.  It wants to be a bendy handle bow, which is new to me, so here we go!

Yeah, it still has a wicked dogleg, but i just put it on the arrow side and this should have minimal archer's paradox...i hope...
Title: Re: Rune bow---twist came out naturally through tillering
Post by: radius on July 28, 2009, 10:54:09 am
Put in some more work since finishing up the new holmegaard. 

Turned this one into a flat-bellied bow.  At the upper limb tip (6" from the end or so) a knot came out.  I think it's cool.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Bow%20for%20Eric/Picture007.jpg)

Here's first brace, after pulling the bow to 16" @40# with the long string (defined like adb defines it:  a long string reaches nock to nock without bracing or drooping).  Tiller's not too bad.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Bow%20for%20Eric/Picture008.jpg)

Here's something i tried to compare the string angle.  I thought if the handle were parallel to the string, and the butt held up to the belly side of the tip, you could accurately compare the angle on both limbs.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Bow%20for%20Eric/Picture009.jpg)

the upper limb

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Bow%20for%20Eric/Picture010.jpg)

the lower limb

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Bow%20for%20Eric/Picture011.jpg)

40# @ 16"

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Bow%20for%20Eric/Picture012.jpg)

This bow wants to bend through the handle...that's new to me...we'll see how that goes!  All the tillering for a while here is gonna take place at the handle.
Title: Re: Rune bow---twist came out naturally through tillering
Post by: radius on July 28, 2009, 11:01:17 am
looks like it has a slight positive tiller through the upper limb...which you can make out by the grain snarl about 6" from the tip...where the hole is.
Title: Re: Rune bow---twist came out naturally through tillering
Post by: radius on August 03, 2009, 12:34:33 pm
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Bow%20for%20Eric/Picture025.jpg)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Bow%20for%20Eric/Picture026.jpg)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Bow%20for%20Eric/Picture027.jpg)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Bow%20for%20Eric/Picture028.jpg)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Bow%20for%20Eric/Picture022.jpg)


this bow turned out really good...i couldn't break it in to pull 40# at 27" like i planned...so the archer will just have to build his strength up by using it!
Title: Re: Rune bow---twist came out naturally through tillering---finished pics
Post by: OldBow on August 05, 2009, 07:15:26 pm
Nicely done and bookmarked under August Self Bows for BOM fun
Title: Re: Rune bow---twist came out naturally through tillering---finished pics
Post by: radius on August 05, 2009, 10:46:26 pm
thanks...see ya at the polls!
Title: Re: Rune bow---twist came out naturally through tillering---finished pics
Post by: Josh on August 06, 2009, 10:28:16 am
Another nice one Scott!! But where is the full draw picture   ??? ??? ???  I wish I had enough time to turn out 4 bows a month!!!!!     ;D ;D  Or is it skill?
Title: Re: Rune bow---twist came out naturally through tillering---finished pics
Post by: radius on August 06, 2009, 10:01:06 pm
Josh,

thanks for your kind words.  As for time...i have just been devoting my evenings and weekends to bowyering, since my social schedule was freed up drastically...

and i just love making bows...
Title: Re: Rune bow---full draw
Post by: radius on August 08, 2009, 12:19:11 pm
here's the full draw...got some stiff spots, but it's lined with knots all down the center...

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Bow%20for%20Eric/Picture.jpg)
Title: Re: Rune bow---full draw
Post by: orcbow on August 08, 2009, 12:25:42 pm
Very nice curve on that! That rune is a very apt choice, I believe one of its meanings is "Yew bow"
Title: Re: Rune bow---full draw
Post by: radius on August 08, 2009, 12:31:35 pm
not yew bow but yew tree, i think

and it's letter is E, the bow is for a guy named Eric.  My buddy says he wants runes in the bow, i started thinking of this particular one while i was roughing out the stave...didn't realize it was the right Initial for the intended owner, nor that it meant yew tree! 

I'm making this rune my mark, and will incorporate it somehow into all my bows i think...
Title: Re: Rune bow---full draw
Post by: orcbow on August 09, 2009, 09:51:58 am
I mark all of my bows with a rune-like symbol that I devised many years ago....
Again nice job on the bow.
Title: Re: Rune bow---full draw
Post by: Keenan on August 09, 2009, 07:36:02 pm
 Very nice work Radius.  Excellent tiller, and the tips look great ;)
Title: Re: Rune bow---full draw
Post by: Jesse on August 09, 2009, 09:23:21 pm
That bow looks great. Nice work
Title: Re: Rune bow---full draw
Post by: GregB on August 09, 2009, 09:34:36 pm

Your bow turned out very nice...ought to be a good shooter! :)
Title: Re: Rune bow---full draw
Post by: radius on August 10, 2009, 01:36:55 pm
Very nice work Radius.  Excellent tiller, and the tips look great ;)


Keenan...!  thanks, bro...

all you guys, thanks for the kind words...i can't wait to get this bow into its intended hands...
Title: Re: Rune bow---full draw
Post by: radius on September 08, 2009, 08:32:18 pm
Finally got some pics from my friend.  This is his dad with the bow, the man who it was intended for.  He loves it!  I've actually seen him since these pics were taken, and he thanked me over and over again and bought me a beer.  It's great to see somebody enjoying something i made for them so much.

Here he is standing, measuring it against his height...he tells me it's exactly right...just lucky, i guess...

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Bow%20for%20Eric/bow1.jpg)

Guarding the back deck...

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Bow%20for%20Eric/bow2.jpg)

Scaring the neighbours...

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/NomadArchery/Bow%20for%20Eric/bow3.jpg)
Title: Re: Rune bow---full draw
Post by: medicinewheel on September 09, 2009, 02:39:06 am
Naaah...that's to far to the right: he'll never hit that box of corn flakes like that!  ;D ;D ;D
Nice bow!



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Rune bow---full draw
Post by: Kent D. on September 09, 2009, 09:39:28 am
well done. 
Title: Re: Rune bow---full draw
Post by: bigcountry on September 09, 2009, 10:23:19 am
That came out pretty nice.  I want to make one like this.  Very scared of knots however. 
Title: Re: Rune bow---full draw
Post by: radius on September 09, 2009, 01:48:26 pm
knots are nothing to worry about, so far...they ARE hard to get through, so eat a hearty lunch first.  When they crack, flow superglue in them and let it set, then you're good to go again.

This one even lost a couple of knots and still held out, even with holes right through the bow!