Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: islandpiper on July 01, 2009, 05:26:13 pm

Title: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: islandpiper on July 01, 2009, 05:26:13 pm
I dressed up some sliced osage and hickory today and glued up two new blanks.   One is Hickory/hickory and the other is osage/osage/hickory.   

I know hick/hick seems like a waste of time, but I had it, and i have liked my hickory self-bows.   I figured that a hick/hick lamination would "average" out some bad habits or weak spots. 

Same thing with the osage.  I am assuming that several lam's will over-ride any grain problems and give me some strong blanks. 

piper
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: DanaM on July 01, 2009, 07:56:52 pm
Looking forward to some finished pictures Kieth :) And actually hickory backed hickory can make an very fast bow 8)
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: islandpiper on July 01, 2009, 11:34:02 pm
Here's a couple pics.  First, the glue of choice.   I figure 40% of you will like it, 40% will hate it, and the other 20% don't care.

(http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr346/islandpiper51/DSCF0007.jpg)

A line of clamps, doing their thing:

(http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr346/islandpiper51/DSCF0003-1.jpg)

And a different angle.   It's nice to have a big box of clamps when you need them. 

(http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr346/islandpiper51/DSCF0002-1.jpg)

The handle area of the whole stack:

(http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr346/islandpiper51/DSCF0006.jpg)

There are two bow blanks in here, the hick/hick, that's the one with the handle sawn into it.  And the osage/osage/hick below that.   I put wide packing tape on one lam so that they would not glue up into one big elephant hunting bow. 

When i can get some more time i'll saw out the back profile and proceed to make dust. 

piper


Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: islandpiper on July 02, 2009, 10:39:04 pm
I pulled the clamps off today, and in a big surprise to myself, I EVEN PUT THEM AWAY IN THE RIGHT PLACE!!

The two blanks didn't bond together, thanks to the packing tape.  I peeled that off and trimmed the blanks on the bandsaw, drew a proper center line on the o/o/h and cut out a nice spalted curly maple handle blank.   Here it is glued and clamped.

(http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr346/islandpiper51/DSCF0008.jpg)

(http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr346/islandpiper51/DSCF0009.jpg)

(http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr346/islandpiper51/DSCF0010.jpg)

a close up of the handle area on the o/o/h

(http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr346/islandpiper51/DSCF0012.jpg)

and one of just a side view of the stack

(http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr346/islandpiper51/DSCF0014.jpg)



Here's one of the H/H just to show the lamination line and thicknesses

(http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr346/islandpiper51/DSCF0015.jpg)

and a group photo of both the blanks side by side:

(http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr346/islandpiper51/DSCF0011.jpg)

More to follow, as time allows.  Piper
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: mullet on July 02, 2009, 10:44:27 pm
 Nice Pictures, Kieth, and I like your choice of glue.
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: cracker on July 02, 2009, 10:45:48 pm
I like it more more. ;DRon
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: islandpiper on July 02, 2009, 10:48:35 pm
Mullet, I'll log you into the 40% approve column.   I am hoping to keep the handle NON-BENDY so that the maple graft stays on there.  The bow is just under five feet overall length, so if i keep a portion in the middle not bending, the rest of the limbs will be working pretty hard.  hmmm......gonna have to think about this one a little.  piper

(opinions, kibutzing, ideas, complaints and comments welcomed)
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: islandpiper on July 02, 2009, 10:50:53 pm
BTW, that spalted curly maple was scrap left over from the current violin build.  I may have to post pics of that, too, one of these days.  piper
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: Pappy on July 03, 2009, 06:19:27 am
Glue is Glue as far as I am concerned,what ever will hold.Looking good so far can't wait to see what you turn out.Love to see the Violin also.Got a new guy at the club that just finished his first selfbow
that has built some Violins and he was worried about patients.  :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: Pat B on July 03, 2009, 09:51:32 am
Piper, I used plastic resin after a bowyer from Italy(Alberto) suggested using it as a substitute for Urac. I found it very similar to Urac and liked the simplicity of it. The bows I glued up with it are still together and it has been at least 3 years since I used this glue. Put me in the positive column! ;)
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: El Destructo on July 04, 2009, 12:07:33 am
Ain't nothing wrong with Hickory backed Hickory......and ain't nothing wrong with WeldWood either.....I even like Da Smell..... >:D

                                                                          Keep Us Posted
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: islandpiper on July 04, 2009, 12:32:47 pm
I spent a few frustrating minutes yesterday planing the sides of the O/O/H blank.  As expected the conflicting runout, which probably contributes to the overall strength of the bow, makes planing with anything a real b***h.    Back to the grinder.....or maybe a very light cut with the power plane.  more as it develops.   piper  (practicing up on my cuss-words)
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: El Destructo on July 04, 2009, 12:36:40 pm
                                                       Keyword here is ...........Beltsander........ ;)
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: islandpiper on July 04, 2009, 01:07:13 pm
ElDestructo......shhhhhh.....we can't say (beltsander) here can we?   :) :)

Dang belts are not getting any cheaper, either. 

piper
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: recurve shooter on July 05, 2009, 01:09:12 am
looking good mr. kieth. im glad you finally decided to work on a few more, cant wait till you finish em.

guys i have the first lam bow he made. it is a short little hick backed osage, and it serriously shoots nearly as fast as my 55# pearson fiberglass lam bow. they shoot really well, and these should be even better.  ;D
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: venisonburger on July 06, 2009, 02:07:01 pm
Have you used the plastic resin before, how well does it work? I have been looking for it lately and none of the stores around here have it, I have to buy it online.  After some research it should be the equivilent of URAC 185. The only difference would be the powder that comes with the URAC  which I have left over from the expired URAC I have. I believe the powder is ground walnut shells?
VB
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: islandpiper on July 06, 2009, 08:28:30 pm
I've never built a bow with it but have build a number of small boats......with well fitted joints it lasts forever.  Really, boiling water proof, and hard enough to turn the edge on steel tools.  piper
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: islandpiper on July 06, 2009, 09:28:21 pm
I had the day off today, so after the usual honey-do list I swung by the shop and grabbed that O/O/H blank.   Based on the suggestion of an active contributer, highly experienced bowyer here, who's name will go un-written, i stood by the big belt sander for a while and got that bow going.   I rand it through the planer and brought it to 1 1/8" wide, and then sanded it to a flat back/rounded belly configuration.  After a while it started bending like a bow and not a length of galvanized pipe.  Now, it is still pretty stiff, much stiffer than anything else i have ever made.  I don't have a tillering tree but use just a tiller stick to check as I go, and when i could get it to bend at all with a long string I started looking, bending and scraping.   the Osage scrapes really well, long wiggly shavings with the thin scraper. 

No pics at this point.  Just a couple of chores left and I'll try to get some later tonight. 

Piper
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: hedgeapple on July 07, 2009, 02:49:23 am
Sandpiper, thanks for the tip about woodweld.  I have a sassafrass board that I could chase a ring on, but it would be a bit thin for a bow.  I'm planning to back it with a piece of hickory left from a stave.  I was needing a glue.  Sounds like Woodweld will do the trick.  But I think I'll try taping the side of the lam piece to catch the glue run off.  And, I'll make it a bit wider than need to any glue drops out.  Of course I'll keep the BS (beltsander) on standby.  Thanks for tips.
Dave
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: islandpiper on July 07, 2009, 10:27:09 pm
The dreaded "ticking noise"......i got the O/O/H pretty much shaped and mostly tillered.  Not pulling as far as I'd like, but I'm not as strong as some of the youngsters like Recurve Shooter and Ian-Johnson so that doesn't bother me much, as one of them can pull it when they come in.  But, i had it back about 22 or 23 inches and there was the dreaded "tick"....and a small sliver of the hickory backing had lifted off.   Dang.   So , i epoxied it and clamped it down.   Later on I JUST COULDN'T RESIST and i stained and oiled the bow. 

If the backing continues to make trouble, i guess i can power sand it off, right down to the osage and blue on another backing.   Any of you all ever done that?  It LOOKS possible.  May be a way to save an otherwise good bow. 

Pics tomorrow as time allows. 

piper
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: recurve shooter on July 07, 2009, 11:39:50 pm
 ;D these should be awsome. im going to feel terible if it breaks when i draw the thing.  :'(
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: El Destructo on July 08, 2009, 12:14:03 am
Keith...what kind of Grain Cut do you have on that Hickory Backing? Biased....Edge....??? You shouldnt be having so much trouble with Backings
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: islandpiper on July 08, 2009, 07:31:39 am
El D."  a splinter picked up off one edge, tapering from a point to approx 1/4" and about 1 1/4" long.  It separated at the glue line, which surprised me, I figured it was good.  The joint was machined dead flat, was fresh and clean.  So, i might have over clamped and squeezed all the glue out.  I'm never known for having the perfect stick of wood to build a bow, so whatever the grain orientation should have been, it probably isn't.  I'll take a look when i get in today.  It is standing in a corner at work. 

Trey, stop in whenever and give it a pull, slowley.  I have a face guard you can wear.  Let me get some pictures first.......it is a real pretty bow. I wonder if i have a full set of pics, and get one full-draw pic, and then it blows up if it still qualifies for BOM?   ???

piper

Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: recurve shooter on July 08, 2009, 05:33:29 pm
mr. kieth i get my drivers liscence tomorrow, i'll b there around 9 or 10 or so.  ;D
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: islandpiper on July 08, 2009, 06:15:37 pm
LISTEN LOUISIANA!!!Read the previous post........watch out for a really tall young man, driving like a newbie through the streets of Hammond!!   Be prepared to slide over to the curb and let him pass.  Good luck everyone, safe travels!!
 :) :) :)

Congrats Recurve......see you tomorrow. 

piper

Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: recurve shooter on July 08, 2009, 11:11:10 pm
 :D that was funny. im gunna b in grandpa's truck so i got to behave.
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: islandpiper on July 08, 2009, 11:53:08 pm
I got the O/O/H pulling nicely to 23", then it stacks as if it turns to steel.  Man, i hate to pull it any further.  May just leave it a heavy-a$$ , short draw bow.   BTW, it is 60 1/2" overall, 1 1/8" wide.  piper
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: DCM on July 09, 2009, 11:28:42 am
60" ntn and 1 1/8" wide stiff handled hickory, much draw weight at 26" is a lot of bow to ask, even w/ a backing.

Went to school in Hammond, La., SLU, back in the 80s.  Lee's drive in still there?  Got me pinnin' fer a hamburger poo boy.
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: islandpiper on July 09, 2009, 12:54:16 pm
I'll probably end up scraping it to get a full draw, but IT'S SO PRETTY THE WAY IT IS.

Yup, Lee's is alive and well.  I eat breakfast there nearly every monday.   Still have great burgers......it is 1960 at Lee's!

piper
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: recurve shooter on July 09, 2009, 11:09:56 pm
i ate there a while back. sorry i couldnt get in today, me and the fellas went bowfishin again.
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: islandpiper on July 10, 2009, 08:35:51 pm
With great trepidation and a heavy heart I got out my one hand scraper, turned the edge and started taking  long, fibrous curls off the O/O/H bow.  The goal was to make it bend right, pull right, not self destruct.   My pull scale has taken a walk someplace so i don't know what it draws.  I'd guess in the low fifties someplace and i can now pull back to my regular lock point on my right jawbone.  That makes it just barely 25" draw.  My arm must have shrunk, I thought I pulled 27". 

But, anyway, the aged finish all came off with the scraper.  I did a quick sand job on it and then a full draw or three in front of the mirror with the bow one way, then flipped and pulled the other way.  The mind can play tricks looking at things.  I'll have to get some pics I guess and see what the tiller REALLY looks like. 

I have the feeling that a  good shooter could drive nails with this one.  ElDestructo says that a little osage goes a long way.  I agree.   I think the next laminated might be 3-4 layers of osage to eliminate grain issues and use the wood i have in stock. 

piper ( sneezing yellow dust)
Title: Re: Two New Laminated Bows begun
Post by: recurve shooter on July 11, 2009, 11:13:11 pm
 ;D ;D ;D i got a sneak peak today guys. this one is sweet. yall will like it, and i cant wait to shoot it.