Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: Marc St Louis on April 15, 2009, 08:08:11 pm

Title: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: Marc St Louis on April 15, 2009, 08:08:11 pm
Made this bow for a guy in MN.  It's Pacific Yew backed with White Ash that's just under 1 1/2" wide and about 1 1/8" thick at the center.  It's 76" N to N and pulls about 110# @ 32".  The nocks are made from WB horn and the top nock has a double groove in it.  I backed this bow with a flat sawn strip of Ash that's about 1/4" thick so that it would have the natural look of sapwood.  Here's a few pictures

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/Marc-St-Louis/Yew%20Composite%20Bows/Ash%20backed%20Warbow/Nocks.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/Marc-St-Louis/Yew%20Composite%20Bows/Ash%20backed%20Warbow/SideProfile.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/Marc-St-Louis/Yew%20Composite%20Bows/Ash%20backed%20Warbow/FullDraw.jpg)

I'm pulling the bow to about 30" in the full draw picture as 110# is a bit too much for me but it is quite smooth to draw
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: african man on April 15, 2009, 08:28:13 pm
Verrrrry nice Marc  ;D
Like the look of the ash on yew ..... was it a board that it didn't have sap wood on it ?
I see you tweeked the tips a bit .....why ?
goes without saying .....Nice tiller !!!

Chris  ;)
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: heavybow on April 15, 2009, 10:32:09 pm
Very nice Marc. I see you have increased your strength nice pull Marc. ;D Marlon
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: hawkbow on April 15, 2009, 11:42:54 pm
VERY COOL MARC... looks like you are ready to storm the castle.. she should pierce armor for sure.. Hawk
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: Marc St Louis on April 16, 2009, 11:01:41 am
Thanks guys

Chris; The guy wanted an Ash backed Yew so I just ripped the sapwood off.  What do you mean "tweaked the tips"  I did glue in a few inches of reflex in the bow

Marlon; It's from making all these heavy draw weight bows  :).  This draw weight is something I could work into
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: african man on April 16, 2009, 11:36:36 am
Tweak = subtle bend  :-\           (or anything else one wants it to mean)

X   ;)

damn nice bow
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: Yewboy on April 16, 2009, 05:12:34 pm
That's a great looking bow Marc, just out of curiosity what is the diameter at the start of the horn?
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: Yeomanbowman on April 16, 2009, 05:42:51 pm
Very nice Marc,  I bet she's fast.

Hugh Soar told me there is a historical reference to a Tudor ash backed yew bow,  I assume a sport bow.

Cheers,
Jeremy
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: nick1346 on April 16, 2009, 06:14:30 pm
Very nice Marc,  I bet she's fast.

Hugh Soar told me there is a historical reference to a Tudor ash backed yew bow,  I assume a sport bow.

Cheers,
Jeremy

Hi Jeremy,

Any chance of getting that reference?

Cheers

Nick

PS Nice bow, I'd be interested to hear how it performs!
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: Kviljo on April 16, 2009, 07:00:33 pm
I can't resist asking - how much overall reflex did you glue in?

And I just can't resist commenting on the perfect tiller. I wouldn't expect anything else, but it still keeps amazing me how perfect you seem to tiller your bows.

The nocks though  - a warbow should have sidenocks! ;)
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: Yewboy on April 16, 2009, 07:31:54 pm
personally I like the nocks, I'm not sure about the statement that "warbows should have side nocks", considering there is only evidense of 1 actual side nock found. ???
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: Marc St Louis on April 16, 2009, 10:07:26 pm
Thanks guys
The diameter at the nock is about 14 mm

I shot the bow with a 600 grain arrow drawn to 28", no chronograph but it was fast.  A bit of hand shock but not to bad

I didn't measure it but I glued in about 4" of reflex.  It kept about 1", without the nocks

The nocks are what he wanted the way he wanted them
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: koan on April 16, 2009, 11:52:02 pm
Dont know much about warbows Marc, but that tiller is SWEET! I think I have overlooked my ash backings long enuff!....Brian
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: Cromm on April 17, 2009, 06:07:28 am
Hi,
If this bow shoots anything like mine, then it's a winner!!!!
Love the look of the bow, Great job!!
Thanks for your time.
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: medicinewheel on April 17, 2009, 09:33:29 am

Nice bow Mark! - what's the grain orientation of the ash??
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: Marc St Louis on April 17, 2009, 10:16:27 am
The Ash backing is plain sawn.  I used an Ash stave that I had, removed the bark and took 2 1/2 rings from the back for the backing.  That means the back of the bow has a natural rounded look.
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: nickf on April 17, 2009, 02:43:01 pm
lovely bow Marc! would love to get my hands on some quality yew soon :) ...and 110# is nice to shoot :D

Nick
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: Yeomanbowman on April 17, 2009, 05:48:13 pm
Very nice Marc,  I bet she's fast.

Hugh Soar told me there is a historical reference to a Tudor ash backed yew bow,  I assume a sport bow.

Cheers,
Jeremy

Hi Jeremy,

Any chance of getting that reference?

Cheers

Nick

PS Nice bow, I'd be interested to hear how it performs!
Hello Nick,

I'll have to email him.

Cheers,
Jeremy
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: Cooper on April 18, 2009, 05:52:36 am
A very fine bow … and a elegant way making the backing.
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: bow-toxo on April 18, 2009, 06:36:17 pm
personally I like the nocks, I'm not sure about the statement that "warbows should have side nocks", considering there is only evidense of 1 actual side nock found. ???

'Nock' means notch. The statement is based on the fact that side nock grooves are visible on every MR bowtip. While only one horn [side]nock remains, bowtip discolouration shows that others had horn, or possibly another material, nocks. Also nearly all early mediaeval bows that have been found had side nocks cut in the wood.
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: cowboy on April 18, 2009, 07:14:05 pm
Very nice one Marc! Beautiful bend - he aught to love it!!
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: Yeomanbowman on April 18, 2009, 07:19:45 pm
I have contacted Hugh Soar and he said that it is entirely possible that ash-backed yew existed but did not know of any literary reference. However he did say backed bows were introduced around the late 1500's.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: outcaste on April 19, 2009, 03:38:04 pm
I have contacted Hugh Soar and he said that it is entirely possible that ash-backed yew existed but did not know of any literary reference. However he did say backed bows were introduced around the late 1500's.

Hope this helps.

Further to this point, page 47 of 'Secrets of the English War Bow' Hugh does discuss the practice of backing Yew bows when good quality Yew was in short supply, especially towards the end of the 16th century. He also points to 'Kelsal' of Manchester being the first to use it to good effect.

Also within the notes and references for this chapter it states that there is an Ash backed Yew bow dated 1650 held by The Royal Company of Archers Edinburgh.

Cheers,
Alistair

Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: alanesq on April 19, 2009, 05:42:31 pm
personally I like the nocks, I'm not sure about the statement that "warbows should have side nocks", considering there is only evidense of 1 actual side nock found. ???

I would agree that warbows should have sidenocks as I have not seen any evidence of anything else being used
(well actually, I have been shown one painting which shows what looks like a modern nock but it was a while back and I cant get hold of a decent copy of the picture to examine it)

see     www.alanesq.com/sidenock.htm (http://www.alanesq.com/sidenock.htm)    for all the info I have (any extra info gratefully received)
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: Yeomanbowman on April 19, 2009, 06:19:31 pm
Hello Alan,
This is the image.  It's in 'The Great Warbow' in more detail.  To me it looks well observed as the proportions are correct.  The detailing is also accurate, things like the arrow being on the 'right' side of the bow and the 'loose'.  The top nock looks very similar to your MR drawing.  However, the image clearly show a loop rather than a noose/knot.  I'm not arguing with your general premise that as far as we know English warbows were side-nocked but I cannot be 100% certain that this was always the case.
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q280/yeomanbowman/frontnock.jpg)
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: alanesq on April 19, 2009, 06:34:03 pm
hi,

thats not the pic I was thinking of - its the one on the back of Richard Wadge's Arrowstorm - but its a good one - cant really see any detail of the actual nock but great detail in the string loop

I understand from at least 2 people that a loop can be used with sidenocks although I have not managed to do it myself yet
so the loop doesnt prove its not a sidenock although it does at least suggest I am wrong to be using a noose if it is?

When I finally get round to making my next bow with better size nocks I will give it another try
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: burn em up chuck on April 20, 2009, 12:41:03 am
  spot on ! sweet. love that profile.

                                              chuck
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: Yeomanbowman on April 20, 2009, 04:06:53 pm
Alan,
You may want to exercise a little caution with a loop and side-nocks.  I'm not saying it cannot be done but Joe Gibbs related a salutary tale to me about the time he tried it and it pulled the limb to one side and as a result tore it clean off :o

What about double-side nocks and a loop akin to the nocks on a selfbow?  However, to me you would not gain the advantage of the spreading of pressure and, if cut-through to the wood cone, the ability to hold the horn on with a noose/bowyers knot.

Sorry for digressing from Marc's lovely bow! 
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: bow-toxo on April 21, 2009, 09:48:30 pm
      We have more than enough information from Tudor sources to be convinced that their bow strings as well as Viking strings used with self side nocks were tied at the bottom and had a loop at the top. No surprise that the painting clearly shows one.  However the Luttrell Psalter picture of archers at the butts shows what appears to be a double loop string. I have used self and horn side nocks exclusively for thirty five years and am trying to imagine how using a loop with side nocks could cause a limb to tear off. I am also trying to imagine a combat archer trying to replace a bowstring tied at both nocks with bowyers knots. LOL

                                                                                                               Cheers,
                                                                                                                  Erik
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: alanesq on April 22, 2009, 03:30:06 am
I have used a sidenocked 120lb bow with bowyers knot at both ends and it can be done once you figure out the technique - the only problem I found was that as the knot at the top can move so you find that every time you adjust it the nocking point on the bowstring has moved

I too can't see why/how a loop would cause a limb to be pulled sideways?   maybe it was the nock came away from the bow or something?
its a good point though that without a noose the idea of the string holding the nock in place is brought into question.  although when braced I guess there is still going to be a lot of pressure on the string so it may still work?

I have tried using a small loop instead of a noose a couple of times but couldnt get it to work but I have since found out that my nocks are way too big so this may be why
it may also be my poor string making skills?

btw - sorry Marc St Louis for going off subject on your thread - maybe an admin might want to move the sidenocks posts to a new thread?
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: Marc St Louis on April 22, 2009, 09:17:13 am
Well Alan oddly enough I am an Admin and I have watched this thread wondering if you guys will ever stop.  This is Rod's forum so I thought I would let him deal with this mess 

I must say that I am a bit surprised and quite frankly getting a bit annoyed at the lack of etiquette being displayed here by some of you guys. 
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: DanaM on April 22, 2009, 10:49:12 am
Beautiful bow Marc she bends very nicely :)
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: alanesq on April 22, 2009, 12:58:44 pm
Well Alan oddly enough I am an Admin and I have watched this thread wondering if you guys will ever stop.  This is Rod's forum so I thought I would let him deal with this mess 
I must say that I am a bit surprised and quite frankly getting a bit annoyed at the lack of etiquette being displayed here by some of you guys. 

I realised that the thread was going off subject so apologised to the thread creator and suggested an admin might help us out to rectify it
I thought this pretty good etiquette myself ?
Title: Re: Ash backed Yew Warbow
Post by: Marc St Louis on April 22, 2009, 08:57:15 pm
Well it has been going off topic for quite awhile now.

If you wish to continue your discussion I will seperate the subjects