Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Primitive Skills => Topic started by: Timo on March 09, 2009, 08:38:56 am
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Probly been gone over a 100 times here ,but I would like to see all you guys recipies. I have one that I use,and it woks fine, but I think it is a lil to brittle. I use it mostly for mounting stone points/knves.
Thanks in advance.
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I use brewer's pitch. That's it. Maybe some lamp black or red ochre thrown in for color.
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Tim, my blend is about equal parts pitch, bees wax(makes it less brittle) and finely ground charcoal(adds body). I have also used fine saw dust instead of charcoal. With the charcoal the glue comes out black. With the saw dust it comes out a tan color. I guess that would change with different wood dusts.
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Brewers pitch?
pat, I never used wax in mine before.I had a friend give me some of his that had manure and deer tallow in it. Melted in my hot truck one day. :)
Does that much wax make it very soft? Or does it get hard?
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Tim, the wax makes it less brittle but not too soft. The amount used was only a guess but about 1/3 each. I have heard of others using different recipes. You may have to play with it to get what works best for you.
The deer tallow(makes it less brittle) would be like using the bees wax and the dried deer pellets are like the charcoal(for body).
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Brewers pitch?
Tim....Brewers Pitch is just Natural Pine Tar Pitch...... Ready to melt down for foodsafe watertight coatings of wood or metal containers.
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I had a guy tell me this one and I used it and like it (but can't take credit for it.) About 3 parts pitch to 1 part charcoal and deer pellets-both finely ground. This has a nice deep black/green color and holds real tight. I used it for all my aroow point haftings last year.
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Mine seems to work fine and hold better,but I was thinking it was a bit to brittle.I may try some wax in my next batch.
Going back to all stone this year so will need lots.:):)
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Doesn't adding charcoal and/or deer poop do the same thing, it adds body so use one or the other.
Bees wax for less brittle. If I remember right the stuff Barry made at last years classic was powder charcoal and bees wax
its nice stuff not too hard and not too soft :)
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I've never worked with pitch before, so here's a couple of questions from a newbie on the pitch subject:
The pitch is to seal over sinew used to secure points or fletching?
Pitch is from pine tree's and the whole recipe is mixed over heat...if so, what temp and how long?
Where would you look for "brewers pitch", if I can't get my hands on natural pine pitch?
Anything else I should be aware of when using pitch?
I'm working on some cane arrows, and would like to try the pitch out instead of tru-oiling over my sinew wraps.
Thanks!
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Greg, I call it " natural glue sticks" works the same way as your commercial glue sticks.
I don't use it over sinew wraps, I have seen people do that though. Wouldn't hurt a thing. I just smear a lil shellac over mine.The pitch is to set your points and hold them there.
Cook the sap over low heat,until it starts to bubble and get syrupy.Skim off the trash,mix in the other ingredients.As it cools I like to take a stick and start dipping it in the mix.Kinda like making a candle,only it looks like a lollipop when done. Some pour theirs into long thin molds and use them just like glue sticks.
Not sure where to get the brewers pitch.
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Thanks Timo! ;)
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Greg, For sinew wraps I use pitch varnish; hard, brittle pitch dissolved in alcohol. Use hard brittle pitch for this (Natural volatile oils have evaporated). if gooy stuff is used, the varnish will stay tacky. Some use plain gooy pitch to seal sinew wraps as it comes from the tree.
Collect the pitch from pine tree damage area. You have to heat it to melt it and to remove debris.
Also, cooking releases the natural volatile oils and allows the pitch to harden when cooled. You have to be very careful when heating the pitch. It is very volatile and will burst into flame if not watched closely. You will have to experiment with how long to heat. I heat it, cook for a while, let it cool and check the consistency. Make pitch glue sticks like Tim suggested.
When the consistency is good, re heat and mix in finely ground charcoal(for body) and bees wax(to make less brittle). Dried deer poop and rabbit poop does the same thing as the charcoal; adds body. I have also used fine saw dust for this.
The bees wax makes the glue less brittle so it doesn't shatter when the arrow strikes something. I think any wax or oil, like bear grease, deer fat, etc will do the same thing.
You will be surprised how sticky the stuff is. When hafting the points I drip some pitch in the arrow head slot. heat the point then push it into the slot and set it true. Let it cool and check for truness. If adjustments are needed reheat the point a bit, adjust, then let it set and check again. Even after wrapping with sinew and sealing you can adjust by heating the point a bit first. If you try to adjust cold, the bond will break.
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Thank's Pat, I'll try and keep an eye out for some damaged pine trees. ;)
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Greg, I'll bring pitch glue fixins and some pitch varnish I made to the Classic.
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That would be great Pat, nothing like seeing it first hand to know if you're getting it right or not! :)
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Brewer's Pitch----http://jas-townsend.com/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=373
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Saw this thread and had to ask......Do you have to find pine trees with damage to them (or do the damage and wait) to get the sap or is there a way to extract it from the wood?
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The old timers up here in the mountains would boil stumps to extract the pitch. If you live near pine trees you can find pitch on some of them around scars, broken limbs and insect damage.. You can also tap them like maples for the pitch.
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one thing about east texas is we got plenty on pines! couple questions tho.
Does it have to be the stump or could you use logs?
When you boil it does the sap float to the top and you just skim it?
ok so three....To tap a pine would you just drill a hole in it and stick a pipe in it with a bucket under?
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With plenty of pine trees you should be able to find pitch. Look close at the pines around you. I'd bet you will find pitch.You can cut a slash in the tree and the sap will run to seal the wound. I have never boiled stumps or trunks so I don't know but if it has pitch in it and you boil it the pitch will come out.
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Thank you Pat you have been very helpful
chris
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Just like to add some things:
Here is a link to a good article on collecting pine sap---http://www.wikihow.com/Tap-a-Pine-Tree
Also, I tried collecting pine sap when I was a kid (for a Boy Scout project) and the thing I remember was that it was MUCH easier to get sap from damaged trees (that have been dripping sap for a while) than to tap the trees.
As far as boiling pine wood, I don't think you'll get much sap that way. The specific gravity of pine tar is .988 so I guess it would float to the top and could be skimmed off....but I've never tried it. I think the knots, roots, and bark would contain a lot more sap than clear wood, in any case.
Stumps and roots were heated in an enclosed container (or pit) to extract pine tar, with charcoal as the byproduct. I've not heard of boiling pine to extract the pitch.
Hope that helps.
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Steve Parker told me about boiling to extract pitch. Maybe he will chine in with more details.
It is way easier to collect already oozed pitch from damaged trees than to force it out.
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My Grandfather used to gather pine sap, for a turpentine company, just like the maple sap gathering, when he was a boy. He would carry a bunch of buckets, and spouts, auger. and a mallet, and long handled stick, with a chain, and ball with a hawks bill blade on it. He would swing the ball and cut a groove, in one direction, and then do the same in the other direction, making a " V " and pound the spout in the hole made with the auger, and hang the little pail on it, and go on to the next tree. As far as boiling stumps, sounds like a lot of work. But I would assume that they were boiling " Lighter " stumps. They make great firewood, and kingling sticks. Full of settled sap, and hard as a rock! You can dull a good axe real quick! But burns hot, and long! ;)
You can cut a groove in a pine tree, and in a few days, you will have a sap ooze starting to build up. Just don't do it when the pine borers are infesting, like in the dry season. No point in helping the little $#@!!. ;) Besides there won't be much sap at all anyway, that is why the beetles do so well. We have had some pretty bad dry spells down here and the pine borers, are wrecking havoc. You can see acres, and acres of dead, and dying trees. :(
Wayne
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I believe the reason they boiled stumps here in the mountains is because that is where the richest pitch deposits were. Very little fat wood here in the mountains, at least not like we had on the coast. I have seen giant dead standing long leaf yellow pine trees, 4' in diameter. You could cut a slab 4" thick off one of those trees and see light through it. They are so rich you had to use a brass ax to split then to keep from creating a spark. ;D ::)