Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: n2everythg on February 03, 2009, 03:59:42 pm
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I always end up second guessing my self while tillering.
so minds well through this out there and see what Y'all think.
got the bow out to 52# at 27". Need to get to 30. I think I'm fixing to make perfect target weight if I dont mess it up between now and then. was shooting for 55# at 29 after finish and shoot in.
worried that my mid to outer limbs are too stiff though. and there is too much work being done in the lower limb closer to the fades.
one limb has a big knot mid limb but the crazy thing is that that limb has been the easiest to tiller. the straight one has given me fits all through the process. the straight one does reflex a bit more about 2/3rd out towards the tip and I think it is causing me to see too much stiffness in the outer 2/3rds of that limb.
Bow is still holding about 2" of set back. no set that I can tell.
Well give me your thoughts if you would.
thanks much.
wade
Unstrung
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s142/n2everythg/bow52_27005.jpg)
at 27"
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s142/n2everythg/bow52_27001.jpg)
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To the untrained eye like myself, it seems the left limb is tad stiff from mid to outer. Other than that, looks good.
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Dude that looks spot on for me..I like to leave the last 6 inches stiff on my tips..the only thing I do see is possibly need to remove some from the right limb 7 inches in from tip to 10 inches from fade...not much just a tad..otherwise nice...like the unstrung profile too...sweet...gut
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gut - thanks. yea I see it there too on the left. Just a tad stiff on the right mid limb out from the knot a bit. not much but maybe a scrape or 2. thanks for your opinion.
big country - ya that left limb is the one that has been giving me fits. that is what I was thinking too. Looks stiff. but I think it may be due to the unstrung profile. it reflexes just a bit more mid limb out and swings up.
start staring at it so long and begin to second guess.......
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Looked at it again and the left looks ok to me..still just a scrape or 2 on the spot on the right..you can take a straight edge about 4 inches long and move it down the limb on the belly side and look at the differences in the space above the straight line..helps see what you get blinded by..LOL...I also like to look at the belly side of the bend..not the back side...when looking at the back side you see all the undulations, humps ,knots ,etc...but from the belly side you won't pick that up as much....just a thought...gut
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Have you braced it yet? if its 52#@27" on the long string its past time to brace it up.
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dana.
yea it has been braced. this is not a long string. just didnt post a braced shot.
wade
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Looks great, I like a bit more bend mid limb and a tad less on the inner limb but it still looks great, this bow will have an incredibly smooth draw the way she is tillered. Steve
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Looks pretty darn good to me also. Maybe a little of what bigcountry said since you still have a ways to go but for me it's
done. :) Nice job.
Pappy
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It looks pretty good,but I would'nt take off any more at the fades.Have you thought about flippin' the tips a little? That would give you opportunity to hit your target weight. God Bless
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well she didnt survive.
I did limber up those outer limbs some and get them bending a little more. pulled it to 29 and was just doing some final finish tillering and some exercise of the bow.
I had it at 54# at 29" and thought I was good to go. took a couple more scrapes off it and was excercising it when I heard a few little ticking noises.... uh oh....whassss that?
then lifted a splinter... errrrrr. was really hoping I had a shooter. Think I could glue it down and back it?
by the way it cracked on the right limb. splintered in close to the fade Guess there was too much stress there after all. Think I will get get the outer limbs bending more on my next bow. darn it.
was my tiller really that bad? or maybe it was just a fluke or thin section in the ring?
here is what my tiller looked like:
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s142/n2everythg/bow54_29001.jpg)
and here is the splinter...
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s142/n2everythg/bow54_29003.jpg)
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well atleast it aint as bad as Dana's splinter lol
i would wrap it with sinew and back it and shoot the ever loving heck out of it.
you could wrap the other limb in the same area for asthetic reasons
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Man, stories like this scares the life out of me. What I am sure bothers you the most is you were so close. I would have definatly never figured this bow would have broke. What were dimensions? How wide at the fades? and Was it pyamid or what design?
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Sometimes a bow will fail no matter how carefully you tillered it. I try not to get too attached to a piece of wood until I've pulled it to full draw about 1000 times.
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n2, that's too bad. 29" is a pretty hefty draw but doable provided the design is right for the wood and draw length. The tiller looked pretty good but the fades are bending. Not an easy design to pull off. How long and wide is the stave? Is this a board or a log? What wood is it? I'm curious as to why you are shooting for a 30 inch draw when you draw 29"? I'm not in the over draw camp. LOL. Breaks are a part of bowyering. Jawge
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That really blows, Wade, sorry, couldn't help it. ;) My thought was the tiller was really good, I would have quit at 28". If I was going to try and get those last few inches out of it I would have dropped in and scraped between 4 and 6" from the tip. Leaving the last 4" stiff and slightly whip tillered.
I think you could super glue and clamp it. Wrap it with sinew and back it with rawhide or sinew back it. But I don't think I'd still try to get 30" out of it.
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Dang! that was coming along nicely.
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I really hate that! The bow was looking pretty good and you were soo close. I'm with the other guys, I stop tillering at the actual draw I'm after. At least you didn't have it sealed with a snake skin on the back...could have been worse.
I didn't see any obvious tillering problems other then a little more bending in the fades like already mentioned.
Like Gordon said, it's only wood...there's a lot more wood out there. Like I've heard Pappy say about a 1000 time's..."gotta have fire!". ;D
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That sucks wade, lots of splinters lately, You could glue it down and give it to an ex girlfriend >:D
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i'd superglue the splinter down and back it with sinew. then you can retiller the outter limbs a bit and maybe get to 30".
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george.
well now that I look again after a night of sleep and some time away. I see that the rt limb is still a bit stiff in mid outer.
I draw about 29 1/2 inches. so I always shoot for a 30" tiller just in case I get a bit excited about that really long shot that I am trying to make. plus my brother draws 30. so if we shoot together I want to be able to had the bow to him and let him plink away with out worry.
well I'm gonna glue, wrap and back it and see if it survives. and also tiller out that flat spot in the mid outer limb and get it bending just a bit more in outer limbs to ease the strain in the inner limbs a bit.
last couple of bows I did I went for more of a full arc but the bow was shorter too.
Oh yea... george.... to answer your questions about the stave.
this was an osage stave split. 66" long, short handle and fades. 3" handle and and like 1.25 fades If I remember right. it was 1.5" wide to mid limb then tapered to tips.
think I juut overstressed the inner limbs. plus looking at it closely the ring was thinner where she popped.
thanks all.
wade
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n2, sounds like it was just one of those things. Design seems right though I think it's a little short for 30 inches. Your tiller was good. I think you need to look to design as a possible reason for the wood letting go. You pushed the osage to the max. I think a backing of rawhide would have brought brought you home. Jawge
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Wade sorry about your bow..it was looking sweet...glad you saee the rt. mid limb..that is what I was seeing..where did it pull the splinter?...which limb?....gut
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gut it was that right limb that pulled the splinter. just out of the fade a bit where it was bending the most. rings were also thinner on that side just a few inches before the big knot that went all the way through the center. I also heat treated to straighten out a little twist and when I did I got some cracks along the back running parallel to the grain. Not deep ones but the splinter followed one of those exactly.
so yea prob a combo of pushing it to the limits of design.. bit stiff in outer limb of the same that pulled splinter, the heat treat cracks, and the thinner ring section. Just couldnt take it.
So chris has got me thinking on the sinew... I was planning on super glue, then back with silk then skin if it held up for a ton of shots.... didnt want to put too much more time into it if it is gonna go.
you guys got any opinion on which might hold better. Sinew or silk backing?
would be nice to sinew it, flip tips and even out that flat spot. but dont want to invest a ton of time if she is gonna blow... guess there is only one way to find out.
gotta least try. silk would be quicker and easier for sure.
later
wade
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I'd do silk or rawhide sinew is to much work for something that may or may not hold up. I've had better luck with raw hide than silk though....
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I'd go with rawhide, if it was me. It offers more protection than silk.
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Agreed rawhide seems to be a better backing for protection than silk...you can superglue the spot and then back......might make it then...gut
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n2,let me continue with why the break may have happened. It happened right near a big knot in an area that was bending quite a bit. In my view, that's it right there, my friend. Been there. Done that. Knots need to appear slightly stiffer than the rest of the limb. If they bend too much it's not a good thing. Jawge
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Nah - not the knot.. break occured about 8" away from it. closer to the handle. where the shiny spot is now in the pic below. knot is at the top.
BTW - got it superglued now. Now just gotta find some rawhide.... anybody got any they want to trade for?
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s142/n2everythg/bow54_29004.jpg)
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Visit here:
http://www.mid-east.com/index.asp
Buy a big , thin drumhead. piper
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ALWAYS lay something across the back to keep your clamp from indenting the back....you got a nice clamp spot on your back now.....if you don't back it ..could pull another splinter on the clamp spot....rawhide bro...rawhide...gut
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Island - thanks for the link. cant access it from work but will try once I get home.
gut -
Nah. just looks like a clamp mark. I only used enough pressure to push down the splinter. didnt actually dent the wood at all. what you are seeing is the over abundance of glue I used. Used so much it formed in the shape of the clamp head. figured I could scrape it off and wanted to saturate the splinter.
Yea I'm headed toward rawhide and see what happens.
thanks guys.
later
wade
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I buy larger than needed, thin drumheads, for re-heading banjos. Then, i save the off cuts. Pretty handy stuff for lots of things. Funny how technology has brought us so many really neat things and such neat stuff in the last 25 years or so, but there is no manmade material that works quite like RAWHIDE. piper