Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: joesharp79 on January 29, 2009, 08:18:04 pm
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thank you all for the great advise on the post twisted limb it was a combination of the 2 tips weren't exactly right and the limb was a little thicker on the other side got that fixed thanks to u guys here
ok now i was wondering cause i cant find anywere that tells me were to cut my arrow shelf do i cut 1" above center for best preformace or is there 1 place better than the other all opinions are greatly appreciated
THANK YOA ALL JOE
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Dont cut one.Then you dont hafta worry bout that.Often,a person finds the correct spot for the pass,by shooting in the bow.If you cut a shelf in before hand,it may not be right for you n the bow.
We dont need no stinking shelves. :D
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I agree with Traxx.
I'm no expert, in fact just finished my first bow recently, but I'm just putting a raised spot, or extra wrap in the hemp string wrap in my handle to give me a reference so my hand will be in the same spot every shot, and thereby my hand will work as a consistent shelf without the added technology and hassle of a shelf. Just a trim with a razor blaze and dot of glue on the feathers (where the feather meets your hand) and you don't even notice the arrow passing across your hand. You can order arrows from raptor archery that are already for shooting without a shelf.
-nick
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It all depends on how you grip your bows Joe. One inch above center would require a fairly straight wrist. An 1 1/2" will require a medium grip, two inches a low wrist or full hand grip. No need to look for a sweet spot, just build in. -ART B
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personally i shoot my bows in to find the sweet spot and then put on a version of a floppy style just so i know where the spot it from then on.
some bows i make with more of a riser style for the grip i go 1.25 inches over center.
i dont understand what a straight wrist or medium grip or full hand grip is,could someone please explain.
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I'll try Tim but I may be wrong :P
Full Hand Grip is like on most of the FG bows you see a pistol grip style and you hold the bow with your full hand
Straight wrist is just that a straight wrist with the only contact point with the handle being between your thumb and pointer finger
Medium grip is in between them two I guess.
Myself I shoot with the straight wrist for the most part.
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I'm secure enough to use a shelf no matter what other people think of them. If you are building the bow for yourself you only have to make one person happy. ;)
I cut my shelf in about 1 1/4" above center. Then I adjust the nocking point a little if need be. It isn't necessary to cut the shelf in, but is makes it easier to match the arrows since spine isn't as picky on a near center shot bow.
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If I plan to cut a shelf or not I usuall shoot it and find a spot I like then mark it and either cut it
in or glue it on.I use to never cut a shelf but It dose make it easier to match arrows. :)
Pappy
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I just grab the bow by the handle where it feels good and make sure the tiller looks good with that hand placement at full draw. Then I just cut the shelf right on top of where I grip it.Usually a little over an inch above center. Then shoot it and adjust the knocking point as needed to control arrow flight. Might not be the best way but it works great for me. I have shot with and without and cant figure out why you would want to be without but to each his own :) Ive seen guys shooting very well without any shelf you just have to be a little more picky with the spine. I find on a deep cut shelf you can get away with shooting a very stiff arrow.
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I do it similar to Justin and Jesse, I don't cut my shelves to center anymore but usually just glue on a leather arrow rest. I narrow the area where the rest will be while I build the bow and just tiller it with my tillering string pulling as if I were shooting an arrow from that point. Really doesn't make much difference. Usually just a touch of positive tiller seems to work pretty well. Steve
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I cut mine in 1 1/4 like Justin..not trying to please anyone but me..LOL...gut
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I have this book about archery anatomy and took a few pictures about grippin. It is actually about pistol grip. With selfbows I guess it is more free will and comfort.
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p391/primitivan/ruka.jpg)
(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p391/primitivan/tekst.jpg)
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Let me get this straight. When you guys that adjust tiller to the shelf/nock location, do you tiller to even tips at full draw? I'm am doing that right now and I'm wondering if my limbs will be timed correctly when doing it this way? Great thread.
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I have been glueing on a piece of antler or wood, but before i do that i tape it on to find the spot that works best for me when shooting.
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archer1, if you're still their can you explain that stuff about" full , medium grip etc" sounds very interesting but not sure what you mean?
I think grip position is underestimated in it's influence on good arrow flight!
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Proper grip per design (distance of arrow pass above center) assures best limb timing IMO. It's like balancing a braced bow on your finger (it should balance somewhere below the arrow pass). Now, if magically you could pull both limbs down simultaneously and let off suddenly, the bow would spring back into the balanced position without too much teetering. This would be good limb timing
Now do the same thing with the bow not balanced correctly on the finger. Bow is probably going to rock around and jump right off the finger. This of course is bad limb timing.
As I mentioned before, if you grip your bow correctly per arrow pass layout you WILL know where the "sweet spot" is and not have to go looking for it. Let's use the graphic that Boro put up to demonstrate the different grips. Drawing number 1 represents a straight wrist/low contact grip (lets say the top of the pistol grip is the arrow shelf). Here the center pressure is closer to the shelf and representing an 1" to 1 1/4" above center arrow pass.
Now, in drawing 2 and 3 you will notice the hand coming up and the center of pressure moving down. You will notice that in drawing #3 the wrist is lower than #1 and this is considered a low wrist/full hand contact grip. Center of pressure is now around 1 3/4" to 2".
Or another way to describe what's happening is with a sliding handle. Lets look at a symmetrical design with same length limbs with the handle dead center. Arrow pass 2" above center. As you slide the handle down the bow the handle moves but the center of the bow stays the same. Here the wrist has to straighten out to maintain the correct pressure at the bow's center. Clear as muddy I know Dragon, but you're on the right track.-ART B
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??? ??? ??? ???
ok so im as dense as all get,i still dont understand it.
i just grab the bow in the handle,nock an arrow,pic a spot,draw relrase and hope to heck i hit near my spot.
sometimes a bow takes a little getting used to,but i manage.
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yah I'm right there with you SailorD, lost in the sauce ;) and my next question will likely illustrate just how hopeless I am. So all this arrow distance from center stuff actually affects arrow flight significantly? -nick
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yes nock position can drasticly affect arrow flight
just changed your nock ppoint up and inch from where you normally shoot then down an inch from norm
and man will you see a dif. i play with the nock point on most bows.
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hmm, I better just hope my first bow, the one I just finished shoots good where it is, because I don't think I'll be able to change it much.
thanks for the info, nick
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Archer1, thanks for that, that will take some thinking about, but that is some really usefull info. I've been struggling with grip positiions for ages, and I think this is the root of the problem, to find this sweet spot, to achieve the balance, turns out balance is the key to most things , but i'd overlooked this important point, I'm sure this is gonna help my shootingand my bow design
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I usually shoot my bows 1.25 inches above center. My bows are symmetrical. I don't usually change where I shoot the bow. I don't do cut in shelves. I just glue on pieces of leather. When I draw the bow I can sense by handle pressure whether one limb is stronger than the other and remove wood accordingly so the limbs are balanced with may be the bottom limb a little stiffer. I tiller not just by by eye but by feel too. When I tiller I try to use more of my senses than my vision. :) Jawge
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I prefer an 1 1/2" above center for my arrow pass because I use a medium grip. Since I give away most of my bows and have the opportunity to watch 'em in action I've noticed a few things. That 1 1/2" above center isn't far enough for most folks. Most people use a full hand contact and I've only seen one person that would require an 1" to 1 1/4" above center rest. And because that person was shooting one of my bows with a somewhat straight wrist I noticed the upper limb taking more set over the lower (bow was well shot-in prior to being given away). The fellows using the full hand contact grip on my bows where struggling to maintain a positive tiller in their bows. My last few bows I set the arrow pass at 1 3/4" above center. -ART B