kids bows, the unbreakable.

[a finnish native]

I just got through my pile of bows and found two bows I had forgotten about. They both came in light (one was supposed to, the other one not). They are both short and with pin nocks. I tested both of them in a bend test and noticed that they can't be broken by overdrawing them. And the other one can even be strung backwards.
When I did the test the string just came off at a certain point of draw. I belive that the heavier one has about 30# at max point of draw, the lighter one about 20 or so.
the woods are rowan and european bird cherry.

But now to my question: why not make kids bows with pin nocs that allow the string to come off if pulled too far? I know it gave me a good scare on the first times, but not after that. Plus one might feel better knowing that the bow won't pop on the kids face if it fails.

I think I'll add a few pics of them later on.

[Keenan]

 Finnish, That can be as dangerous or even more so.  If the bottom string were to pull off first the result could be the upper limb coming into the face. Also I've had one snap back so hard when a tip broke that it snapped in half the opposite direction. (snapped the belly at the handle. However this was a halibut skinned adult bow at full draw.
 Better to overbuild and keep well withing proper string angle.

[a finnish native]

naturally so, but the strike is not so hard with real kids bows like 10-15# that it would be worse than breaking that brabd new bow that uncle gave just a few days ago.
I like to make kids bows as adulta ones so that they match the shooter and thus not overbuild them. but a 48" bow for an under 10 year old kid is like a 66" bow for us.
       Like you said adult bows may snat fmo the belly if the string comes off, but bows for kids are usually so light in limb weight and pounage that it would be almost impossible ot break one so.

[Papa Matt]

Don't do it, Finnish. Keenan's right. I would hate to have a knock break or a string come off a child's bow. It was a good idea as far as thinking of a precautionary measure against breaking the bow, but it puts the child's safety potentially at risk. Besides, it's trying to compensate for a lack of competency on the part of the child by purposely implementing a defect in the bow (the string slips off). Better to just work with the child, when they are old enough to grasp the teaching, to not overdraw the bow.

JMHO

~~Papa Matt

[JackCrafty]

Kids are funny...if they know the string will come off, they will find a way to make it not come off...or they may not use the bow.  I've had a string or two come off my kid's bows in this way and they didn't want to use the bows after that.

What I do is build kid's bows with plenty of stack at the maximum draw (so that it's hard to pull back further) and use wood that either takes a lot of set before it breaks (elm) or is extremely tough (ipe).  I back the bows with a few layers of wood glue to keep the pieces from flying if the bow breaks.  I'm going to start backing the bows with rawhide, however, now that they are getting older (and stronger).
 

[Papa Matt]

Pat, how do you make the bows stack?

[JackCrafty]

A bow will stack when the angle of the string at the bow's tips exceeds 90^o.  Just tiller the bow so that it will stack at the child's draw length.

[Keenan]

 Finnish, Over building doesn't mean making it to hard for them to draw. Just means making the bow well within the limits of the wood so as not to be close to failure. That being said I would go for slightly longer then normal for their draw length and that will help them draw easier anyway. And then you will be able to tiller the bow out farther then their draw length and have a safety window

[JackCrafty]

Here's a picture of one of my 5 year old sons holding a bow of my favorite design for the kids.  It is made of elm and starts to stack at about 16".  As you can see from the lower limb, the string angle is already pretty severe even at the short amount of draw that he is pulling (in the pic).


I have found that making a bow longer (with a longer draw length) doesn't prevent breakage as well as a bow that stacks....especially when an older child uses a younger child's bow.

[a finnish native]

I get your points. What I basically ment, was that I do kids bows so that I know they won't snap by testing this. Of course I won't make bows that will come off the string by any chanse in max draw (the draw would be impossible for the kid to acheave, for instance the point where the string came off was about 28" in both cases). And I give them a set of arrows that I have personally tested. and I also tell them not to draw the bow further than the arrows are long. and explain why.
Basically I just tiller the bows so that I know they won't snap if not violated from the back.

[stickbender]

     Finnish Native;
     I was just going to suggest that you make the arrows at their draw length, and that way if they try to over draw, or an older child gets a hold of the bow, it still won't be able to be drawn past the draw length of the arrow.  But then there is always the possibility of the older child getting a longer arrow......But I like your thinking.

                                                                     Wayne