One Time LookyLou Members

[Keenan]

 Tiller stated;  I think the voting should be left up to and impartial committee of voters that do not have a stake in the game but have built bows for a very long time and have a bundle of knowledge about it under their belts. But it should not be allowed to become a popularity contest.

 Guys I said this on the original thread "Lets fix the problem", guess not to many people read it and went to complaining and it got lost in the thread. I even gave a good guideline on how to keep it impartial.

But as I stated in the last post. This thread is about "how to get people involved"

[Hhop]

Do not jump to the conclusion that just because a member does not post often, that they do not vote in the Bow of the Month contest. I personally see no problem that needs to be fixed. I have been a member since 1999 and through every change the board has gone through since then; was here when it was closed to those that did not subscribe, and registered after the last change when most of the folks that are here now came pouring in. Unfortunately all past totals for posts were wiped clean; and I just have not posted much since the lastest change, but do check in here somewhat frequently.

I remember well when Oldbow proposed the contest quite a number of years ago. It was certainly not meant to be the competitive contest that more recent arrivals have made of it. He does a fantastic job, but I would think that he would become quite frustrated at all the whining over what he started as just a fun little showcase. It pleases me to see that the handfull of members that are still here from those days, also have a sense of the history of what transpired and express similar opinions.
My vote is that it is working just fine, just as it did from the beginning. Thanks for all your work over all these years Oldbow.
Harold

[Coo-wah-chobee]

Like was once said " Ifn it aint broke DONT fix it !" Foks your not gonna stop it bein' a popularity er beauty contest unless y'all end it ! Thats the reality of it to my way of thinkin'. My 2 cents with a bit of change back ! ....bob

[Gordon]

I'm not sure I understand where the notion that BOM has turned into a beauty/popularity contest is coming from. I can honestly say that I can't think of a single BOM winner that did not seem deserving for one reason or another - and it didn't seem to me like the popularity of the bowyer had anything to do with it. And yes, most if not all of the winning bows have been attractive. Which is as it should be - anything that is well designed and crafted is inately beautiful.

There are some here who have no use for competition. I personally believe that a bit of friendly competition is a healthy thing. But I respect those who hold a differing view and have no desire to impose my values on them. But I ask the same of them in return.

I don't think there is anything wrong with BOM as it is. And really, in the grand scheme of things, BOM is small potatoes - it's purpose is just to create a bit of fun. I hope we can all regain perspective and move on to important things.

[FlintWalker]

If you didn't have to sign up as a member to see the pictures, I don't think you would see such inflated membership numbers.  I like to look at what i'm reading about, as i'm sure most people do.
To post a comment, vote or start a thread, I think one should be required to be a member, but not to simply look around.  
 Lots of people are apprehensive about signing up for things. I think if PA would let those people see what we have to offer without having to sign up, we wouldn't have so many inactive members and the ones that do sign up would be more likely to contribute to this site.  Saw Filer

[DanaM]

If you didn't have to sign up as a member to see the pictures, I don't think you would see such inflated membership numbers.  I like to look at what i'm reading about, as i'm sure most people do.
To post a comment, vote or start a thread, I think one should be required to be a member, but not to simply look around.  
 Lots of people are apprehensive about signing up for things. I think if PA would let those people see what we have to offer without having to sign up, we wouldn't have so many inactive members and the ones that do sign up would be more likely to contribute to this site.  Saw Filer

Now that is a genuinely good idear Shannon. I'm done with this and will keep my opinion to myself, that should please some of ya

[Andrea S]

I know that after reading everyone's posts on this thread, it seems as if the subject has been gone through with a fine-toothed comb, but I have just a few things to offer up. I consider myself a somewhat level-headed person, so maybe my two cents will be worth the copper.

BOM, to me, is quite enjoyable as a review of what the folks on this board have crafted. Don does a fantastic job of organizing the links and descriptions of the bows to be voted upon, and when I vote, I take the time to look at all the pictures of each one, as well as skimming some of the other user's comments on their observations. I don't do this to follow popular opinion; rather, I lean a bit on the expertise of the more experienced bowyers to pick out nuances in tiller and other factors that I don't quite have the eye to pick out in the pictures myself. I missed voting for BOM this month and I'm sorry I did, but one thing that really helped as a reminder was the mass PM that Don sent out one month. I've been real busy with work and moving into a new apartment, so I haven't been able to visit these forums as religiously as I did at school. A little note in my email box (I've set my account preferences so that PM's are also emailed to me) is great to say "Hey, check out what the awesome folks on this forum have done this month!"

The unfortunate reality of BOM is that by its very nature, it has to be a beauty contest. It's rare that anyone who votes for BOM actually has a chance to shoot any of the bows they're voting on, unless of course it's the one they made (shame on you for voting for yourself!  ) Now, I know the term "beauty contest" has a lot of negative connotations, but that's truly what it is: a contest based solely on images. It is entirely possible that a bow made by one person with a beautiful tiller and fancy tip overlays and a complex handle wrap could shoot like a beast and have handshock enough to make you cringe, while another bow that's done a little more roughly with not as nice a finish and a not-so-perfectly-arced tiller could shoot far sweeter and wonderfully fast. The second bow would have our vote if we could shoot it, but since all we can do is look, we vote for the first one. This does not means BOM is good or bad; it simply means it's what it is.

It's my personal, charged, biased, and highly opinionated opinion that we shouldn't stop contests just because peoples' feelings might get hurt. That kind of 'political correctness' is ridiculous and is no way based in reality. Nothing in life is ever truly fair, and for every situation, there's bound to be someone who can find a problem with it. Hurt feelings or perceived unfairness is no reason to stop what is, in truth, a very friendly and interesting display of a month's worth of fine craftsmanship, where people get to cast a vote to pick which one they liked best. The wonderful thing about this democratic process is that if you don't want to vote or don't agree with the whole deal, you don't have to participate.

As far as getting more people to vote for BOM, I don't think that's really a concern. The people who vote are the people who care enough to take the time to review those bows. Quantity does not always mean quality, and I think it's more valuable to the contest itself to have a handful of well-considered votes rather than several hundred hastily cast.

Take all this with a grain of salt. I'm only 19.

[radius]

I think the trouble that Oldbow has with this contest (at least in this thread) is the RATIO of voting and non-voting members.  I think that's just something he might have to learn to live with.  If people can only see the pictures if they are members, then maybe they will join just to see them, as someone said, and then never come back because they are only marginally interested.  That's fine.  Let them go.

I believe the membership was recently purged.  That's fine, too:  why bog down the system with a bunch of defunct listings?

If the RATIO is that important, then perhaps the moderators should be more stringent about the membership.  If a person does not post for 60 days, he's outa here.  If he does not even log in for 30 days, he's outa here.  It's no big deal:  takes 2 seconds to sign back in; doesn't cost anything. 

BUT...all this will do is narrow the gap between voting and nonvoting members, because it doesn't cause any more people to participate. 

[koan]

I think you nailed it...your wise beyond your years...Brian

I know that after reading everyone's posts on this thread, it seems as if the subject has been gone through with a fine-toothed comb, but I have just a few things to offer up. I consider myself a somewhat level-headed person, so maybe my two cents will be worth the copper.

BOM, to me, is quite enjoyable as a review of what the folks on this board have crafted. Don does a fantastic job of organizing the links and descriptions of the bows to be voted upon, and when I vote, I take the time to look at all the pictures of each one, as well as skimming some of the other user's comments on their observations. I don't do this to follow popular opinion; rather, I lean a bit on the expertise of the more experienced bowyers to pick out nuances in tiller and other factors that I don't quite have the eye to pick out in the pictures myself. I missed voting for BOM this month and I'm sorry I did, but one thing that really helped as a reminder was the mass PM that Don sent out one month. I've been real busy with work and moving into a new apartment, so I haven't been able to visit these forums as religiously as I did at school. A little note in my email box (I've set my account preferences so that PM's are also emailed to me) is great to say "Hey, check out what the awesome folks on this forum have done this month!"

The unfortunate reality of BOM is that by its very nature, it has to be a beauty contest. It's rare that anyone who votes for BOM actually has a chance to shoot any of the bows they're voting on, unless of course it's the one they made (shame on you for voting for yourself!  ) Now, I know the term "beauty contest" has a lot of negative connotations, but that's truly what it is: a contest based solely on images. It is entirely possible that a bow made by one person with a beautiful tiller and fancy tip overlays and a complex handle wrap could shoot like a beast and have handshock enough to make you cringe, while another bow that's done a little more roughly with not as nice a finish and a not-so-perfectly-arced tiller could shoot far sweeter and wonderfully fast. The second bow would have our vote if we could shoot it, but since all we can do is look, we vote for the first one. This does not means BOM is good or bad; it simply means it's what it is.

It's my personal, charged, biased, and highly opinionated opinion that we shouldn't stop contests just because peoples' feelings might get hurt. That kind of 'political correctness' is ridiculous and is no way based in reality. Nothing in life is ever truly fair, and for every situation, there's bound to be someone who can find a problem with it. Hurt feelings or perceived unfairness is no reason to stop what is, in truth, a very friendly and interesting display of a month's worth of fine craftsmanship, where people get to cast a vote to pick which one they liked best. The wonderful thing about this democratic process is that if you don't want to vote or don't agree with the whole deal, you don't have to participate.

As far as getting more people to vote for BOM, I don't think that's really a concern. The people who vote are the people who care enough to take the time to review those bows. Quantity does not always mean quality, and I think it's more valuable to the contest itself to have a handful of well-considered votes rather than several hundred hastily cast.

Take all this with a grain of salt. I'm only 19.

[Bowbound]

I haven't posted a lot, still voted but yet i do surf the forums daily and am active. I think that many people are almost intimidated by the standard and feel that they are not in the correct position to post because they think athers know more about the craft. Those that post more.

just my 2 cents

[El Destructo]

I haven't posted a lot, still voted but yet i do surf the forums daily and am active. I think that many people are almost intimidated by the standard and feel that they are not in the correct position to post because they think athers know more about the craft. Those that post more.

just my 2 cents

Well they...and you included should not feel Intimidated with this Bunch....there isn't a Bowyer on here....that would not go out of His way to Help anyone willing to Listen and Learn this craft....there may be a bunch of family squabbles on here every once and a while....but what Family doesn't argue??? If you ever need information about anything Primitive....whether it be Bows or anything else....there will always be someone that will lend a hand to help you out....so don't be so quiet...have a Question ....Please Ask........JMO

[Justin Snyder]

I haven't posted a lot, still voted but yet i do surf the forums daily and am active. I think that many people are almost intimidated by the standard and feel that they are not in the correct position to post because they think athers know more about the craft. Those that post more.

just my 2 cents

Well they...and you included should not feel Intimidated with this Bunch....there isn't a Bowyer on here....that would not go out of His way to Help anyone willing to Listen and Learn this craft....there may be a bunch of family squabbles on here every once and a while....but what Family doesn't argue??? If you ever need information about anything Primitive....whether it be Bows or anything else....there will always be someone that will lend a hand to help you out....so don't be so quiet...have a Question ....Please Ask........JMO

And I meant what I said before.  We like new guys and we like questions.  We all learn from every question no matter how silly someone thinks it is.  Please ask away if you have questions and feel free to speak up when you have something to add.  Justin

[GregB]

I post my bows for constructive critisim. i don t have a problem with them being in bom. i know i dont have much of a chance but its fun.  once i got 1 vote. 1 real vote and i was very happy someone else actually liked it

i would like to see some of this fixed but i dont want to do away with bom i look foward to it.  and life is too short to get upset or mad.  im only 14 but i may not be typing here tomorrow. that one of the reasons i almost never get mad and if i do i dont stay mad. i dont like being in a bad mood

dont worry.... be happy 

I remembered this young man's comment from the other thread and felt it was worth all of us reading again. I think we could all learn a lesson and would be better off if we followed David's logic. We're all individuals and as such there will always be something about this forum that doesn't meet everyone's approval. I think PA is making some changes to the BOM, so we should all just take a few deep breaths and calm our nerves and see what changes will be made...I'm sure they will be for the better.

I think Shannon made a good point about new folks having to register to view pictures...probably is largely responsible for a large but inactive membership. I feel like even though a lot of folks may be inactive, hopefully many of them are still gaining information just from reading and viewing the posts. That's a positive note to me! Let this forum be whatever the individual wants it to be for themselves. For some it's communicating, and posting, and voting. For others it is only viewing, but over time and gained experience that could change for some.

"What will be will be" I for one will try and take David's advice and... "not worry...be happy!".

[Pat B]

Greg, I knew David was a wise old sage from his first post.  The rest of us chronological oldies should heed his wise advise.     Pat 

[cowboy]

Well, that's a lot of reading. I have been aware of this site for about a year and a half now. Joined up to learn, then started chatting and getting to know everyone, and eventually met some in person. I'ts been a grand adventure and a lot of fun, and I consider most to be my second family. The monthly BOM to me is just a part of it "fun". I'm like others - it is what it is. Some will vote for purty, some will vote for a buddy, some will vote for function. Like Gordon said a little friendly competition is a healthy thing. I personally don't consider the BOM to be broke so doesn't need to be fixed, but if it's tweaked in some way I'm not going to loose any sleep over it - I have bigger badder things to worry about in life. The contest and this site to me is all good .