Looking for a 400 yard shot

[Del the cat]

Harry Drake and Flight Archery
 I bought the book, Harry Drake and Flight Archery by Kay Koppeldrayer on E-bay, it had to be shipped over from the US.
If it is your area of interest, I thoroughly recommend it.
Flight is maybe a bit niche, and my particular interest within that niche is wooden bow, wooden arrow.
The book pulls together a wealth of biography and information not easily accessible elsewhere.
It's re-kindled my interest in flight and given areas for further work and experimentation.
The point of this post is to lay out those topics before I forget them.
I think I have a good candidate for a bow (my Osage flight bow) I also have ideas for further bow developments, some based on my previous bows. The main area that needs development is the arrows.
1. Short arrows for use with short draw bows or bows with overdraws. I need to make many more arrows.
2. Compressed wood for arrow shafts?
3. Release aid, flipper or mechanical.
4. yew bow with very solid substantial riser approx equal length to the limbs. Shoot through design.
Maybe with takedown style limbs (Yew limb reinforced with thread binding at root to allow fixing to (adjustable?) riser.

[simk]

Ordered mine last sunday 

[Hamish]

Looks like a good book, but i'd have to know a lot more about it before ordering it. Costs Australian $75, then about another $70 for shipping downunder.

[RyanY]

I got a copy myself. Not too deep into it yet but it’s very good so far. Very much an interesting biography.

[Del the cat]

I got a copy myself. Not too deep into it yet but it’s very good so far. Very much an interesting biography.

You'll need lots of strips of paper to use as bookmark for the odd snippets of vital info that are hidden in there!
Del

[sleek]

Im half way to the salt flats at this point. My goal of going there to shoot a 90 pound has once again been thrwarted by my own abilities. I will instead be showing up with an 85 pounder. However this 85 came out with a very high energy storage and efficiency. It stores 88% of its drawn energy, anything 85% and up is great. This bow should shoot well as long as I do my job and made good arrows.

Ill be going with a few other bows as well. One special one by Super Dave. Arvin and I did a force draw chart on that bow last night. Its an amazing bow, storing just over 104% of its draw weight in energy. That is phenomenal on its own. I expect very impressive results from it at the salt flats.

400 yards is my goal, and im going to try to get there with my 85 pounder. I also made an 88 pounder ( again missing my 90 pounder goal but this time due to the limits of the wood ) and it will be shot by a very well known and respected archer all over the world, a Hungarian named Monus. I hope he has success with this bow as well.

However I also believe a 50 pound bow can get that 400 yard shot. Lessons this year will be applied to next year's bows and hopefully a 50 capable of going the distance will be made.

All of this would be made easier if the bow were the only challenge. The problem is, a bow is useless without an equally good arrow made and tuned to the bow. I have learned that an arrow being light weight as possible is not what a bow needs for its fastest shot. An arrow actually needs to be a certain weight and too light will actually slow the arrow down. Many years ago in here I described a bow limb wave theory. This new to me discovery on the weight requirements for an arrow support that theory. Ill report more during and after the event.

[Del the cat]

... Arvin and I did a force draw chart on that bow last night. Its an amazing bow, storing just over 104% of its draw weight in energy. That is phenomenal on its own.

Hi, I'm confused as to how you measure the stored energy ( area under the force draw curve?)...
and how it can be more than 100% ( maybe because there is energy stored in the bow from when it was braced?)
(I'm not trying to argue, just seeking clarification).
Del 

[Badger]

  You might be on to something with those frets but for a slightly different reason. I believe they could reduce vibration and distortion which is the biggest loss the bows have. Shorter working limbs or shorter bows is how we currently deal with it. You might be able to make a longer bow with very little vibration.

[Badger]

  The lighter an arrow is, the faster it will shoot. However, how far they will shoot is another story. tuning becomes more critical as arrow weights go down and it becomes harder to maintain a favorable drag co-efficient. Josef shot an 88# ELb 530 yards in practice but shot the bow out. In competition, he still broke a record at 450 yards with a fast flite string.

[sleek]

... Arvin and I did a force draw chart on that bow last night. Its an amazing bow, storing just over 104% of its draw weight in energy. That is phenomenal on its own.

Hi, I'm confused as to how you measure the stored energy ( area under the force draw curve?)...
and how it can be more than 100% ( maybe because there is energy stored in the bow from when it was braced?)
(I'm not trying to argue, just seeking clarification).
Del 

I use the formula 1/2(A+B)÷12=X

A and B  are the weight at consecutive draw lengths. I do a force draw chart, starting at a 7 inch brace. Since 7 is brace its pulling 0 pounds. The chart looks like this: first column is inches of draw, second is weight in pounds.

7:0
8:2
9:9.8
10:13.4

Plugged into the formula it looks like this:
1/2(0+2)÷12= .083 foot pounds of energy
Then I move down from inches 7 to 8, to 8 to 9
1/2(2+9.÷12= 4.92

This is repeated all the way down the FD chart. When completed, I add up all the foot pounds of energy stored in each inch of draw. That tells me total amount of energy the bow stores when drawn. Then I divide that number by the draw weight of the bow to get a percentage of efficiency: how much energy the bow stores vs how much it draws. Compounds are always over 100% and a good self bows will be 85% or higher.

I hope that helps you out.

[Del the cat]

... Arvin and I did a force draw chart on that bow last night. Its an amazing bow, storing just over 104% of its draw weight in energy. That is phenomenal on its own.


I use the formula 1/2(A+B)÷12=X

A and B  are the weight at consecutive draw lengths. I do a force draw chart, starting at a 7 inch brace. Since 7 is brace its pulling 0 pounds. The chart looks like this: first column is inches of draw, second is weight in pounds.

7:0
8:2
9:9.8
10:13.4

Plugged into the formula it looks like this:
1/2(0+2)÷12= .083 foot pounds of energy
Then I move down from inches 7 to 8, to 8 to 9
1/2(2+9.÷12= 4.92

This is repeated all the way down the FD chart. When completed, I add up all the foot pounds of energy stored in each inch of draw. That tells me total amount of energy the bow stores when drawn. Then I divide that number by the draw weight of the bow to get a percentage of efficiency: how much energy the bow stores vs how much it draws. Compounds are always over 100% and a good self bows will be 85% or higher.

I hope that helps you out.

Cheers, that clarifies it
Del

[sleek]

Whelp, sadly my 400 yard shot did not happen this year. My bow is more than capable, my strings dont blow up anymore, now its my arrows that are the limiting factor, and possibly my release. The trick is to get that arrow off the bow without any interference with the bow. My fetching keep striking the bow and crumpling them. That causes them to act like speed brakes vs vanes.

In other news, my wife shot one of my prototype 35 pounder bows to a distance of 253 yards. The record was 217 yards. Thays a long was for a 35 pounder to go and it does glfurther my confidence in my bow design. Despite her being new to flight archery, she has already taken the world record twice in the 35 pound class. I think with the perfect shot and arrow returning she may be able to hit 300 yards. That would be an incredible goal for her to reach.

Next year's goal, 400+ with a 90 and a 50 pounder, and 300 with a 35.

So I have many arrows to make for a 35, a 50, and a 90 pound bow, as well as new bows for all those categories. Hopefully I can learn some lessons from this year and apply them effectively. Next year is already coming fast!

[JW_Halverson]

Whelp, sadly my 400 yard shot did not happen this year. My bow is more than capable, my strings dont blow up anymore, now its my arrows that are the limiting factor, and possibly my release. The trick is to get that arrow off the bow without any interference with the bow. My fetching keep striking the bow and crumpling them. That causes them to act like speed brakes vs vanes.

In other news, my wife shot one of my prototype 35 pounder bows to a distance of 253 yards. The record was 217 yards. Thays a long was for a 35 pounder to go and it does glfurther my confidence in my bow design. Despite her being new to flight archery, she has already taken the world record twice in the 35 pound class. I think with the perfect shot and arrow returning she may be able to hit 300 yards. That would be an incredible goal for her to reach.

Next year's goal, 400+ with a 90 and a 50 pounder, and 300 with a 35.

So I have many arrows to make for a 35, a 50, and a 90 pound bow, as well as new bows for all those categories. Hopefully I can learn some lessons from this year and apply them effectively. Next year is already coming fast!

There's something to live for! Good luck buddy, I'm cheering for ya.

[sleek]

The scenery out there is really amazing. Here is a shot off all my gear Id brought to test and compete with.

[willie]

nice bows.... cool pic

I have many arrows to make.....

theres gotta be a way to test shoot arrows before the annual competition.