Author Topic: Framed beef rawhide (Read 18068 times)

BowEd · « **Reply #45 on:** June 09, 2021, 07:23:12 pm »

Always enjoy your comments JW.I've never heard of Joe but there's a lot of excellent brain tanners out there these days.All trying to make money off of books and DVD's.My DVD is in my head.....ha ha.
Back in the 1980's in the basement of my old farm house I had a set up frame I could get to either side of the hide.Staples were hit onto the edges of the 2"by4"'s for lacing holes and onto the ceiling beam and onto a 2"by4" bolted to the cement floor.I had a wood burner and a fan going then too.Very convenient!!!Ahhhh the good old days.

Here I've got to flip this big frame around in order to stake this hide on both sides.Plenty of time though.No big deal.I keep saying it's not over till it's over.If I've got to rebrain and reframe stretch this hide again that's the way it'll be.I seen a small knife split open up to a small hole just while stretching it the short period of time before putting it into the freezer so I know I'm getting a good stretch on this hide.
I've personally seen first hand brain tanned beef hide articles in a museum.I forget where.It's been done.I think mostly during the early reservation period of times back in the late 1800's.Since I can't get or too cheap to get my own moose or bull elk I'll have to make beef hide work for me......ha ha.
When the weather is right I'll thaw this hide out of the freezer.Brain slurry too.Rebrain and twist it again multiple times.Put it back into the frame and stake it dry.I expect it to take at least 12 hours worth of staking to get this one dry.Hope I'm wrong though.
Were'nt you at John Bybees' place when I did a small deer hide brain tan demonstration there?I think his wife was upset about all of the deer hair in her woods.....ha ha.I keep that under control here by dehairing on quiet days.....ha ha.She might of not liked the brains being cooked on her stove either....ha ha.

bjrogg · « **Reply #46 on:** June 09, 2021, 09:19:39 pm »

Thanks for sharing this Ed. I always learn something when you document these tan jobs.

It’s a enormous undertaking even without the documenting and posting.

Just want you to know I appreciate it.

Bjrogg

JW_Halverson · « **Reply #47 on:** June 10, 2021, 02:06:40 am »

Joe runs a fair sized commercial tannery. I got some really fine bark tanned deer hide from him and it is BUTTER.

BowEd · « **Reply #48 on:** June 10, 2021, 07:26:16 am »

Thanks BJ.Us country folk think alike.Sure hope you get the rain you'll need up there.It's getting drier and drier here now and the actual summer has'nt even begun yet.These bigger hides are being done by quite a few people actually.I feel like I'm just trying to keep up.
JW....That's cool.It would be interesting to walk through his tannery.The one north of me is too expensive to suit me though.They do fine work too,but not brain tanning.Did Joe do some brain tanning?
I've figured out a way to set this frame up in the shade in a way that I can get to both sides of the hide to stake so I'm good to go.

JW_Halverson · « **Reply #49 on:** June 10, 2021, 10:20:23 pm »

I know he has done brain tanning in the past, but he does not offer that as a commercial tanning operation.

BowEd · « **Reply #50 on:** June 11, 2021, 06:55:52 am »

Most tanning operations are aware of brain tanning.So much so that they try to imitate it's likeness looks wise with chemicals.Tanning operations continually try to disguise their product proclaiming look alikes.Charging higher prices for their look alike product.Although they do proclaim it to be a look alike product but not really true brain tan to stay away from any lawsuits.
Facts are it does'nt have the same feel or ease of applying quillwork or beadwork.I don't think it's as tough either.In short it's a fraud IMO.Facts are they realize it's a lot more work to do it the natural way.Not a viable money making enterprise for them to get into now or ever has been.Although I've made thousands of dollars selling brain tan myself,but not on the grand scale tanning operations want to make money.
That's why I say "Ai'nt nothing like brain tan leather".
It has it's place of use where it is the best type of leather to have like say garment type leather.For something relatively thin but stiff enough to hold its' profile like say a pistol holder it is not the best type of leather to use then.Other types of natural tanning has it's place of best use too.Like bark or vegetable tan for instance where stiffer thicker leather is the best choice for the service needed.It can be more more supple too but then it is very thin leather but not as supple thin as brain tan yet.
For many in the public it does'nt really matter to them.Their satisfied just that it's leather.No matter how it came to be.There lies the difference between those who follow the old ways and those who it does'nt really matter.

BowEd · « **Reply #51 on:** June 12, 2021, 05:13:47 pm »

I decided to heck with waiting for cooler weather because the forecast is for hot days for 2 weeks for sure so I took the hide and brain slurry out of freezer to thaw yesterday.Rewarmed brain slurry and rebrained the hide.Let it set overnight again.
Next day I needed to go to a 3D shoot in the morning.I left hide in brain slurry all day today.
This evening I will take hide from brain slurry.Rewring and twist it multiple times.Frame it and stake and stretch it at least an hour on both sides but leave it damp and not completely dry.Rewarm brain slurry again and reinsert hide into brain slurry and let it set in brain slurry overnight again.Then tomorrow morning remove hide.Rewring and twist it multiple times again.Then reframe it and stake it till dry to see how soft it will get overall.I have a feeling sometime along the way I'm going to need to unlace it as it's drying and begin to work it on the rope too.
All these multiple rewarming of brains/twisting/stretching/and rebraining part time steps are done to try to get a first time staking and roping on this hide in the frame to a soft overall product.It will take a long time to completely dry.I figure a good 12 hours plus.
I figure to take breaks putting it into a plastic bag sealed occasionally while I'm roping it.
A thick hide like this leaves nothing gauranteed for a first time soft product.This is where big thick hides take more time to do.Not really constantly working them but doing part time steps along the way.I still may need to rebrain it again and stake it again.
Some time Sunday I will know I figure.

Morgan · « **Reply #52 on:** June 12, 2021, 07:59:22 pm »

Awesome posts Ed. Doing this in warm weather, is there any worry of the brains starting to spoil?

BowEd · « **Reply #53 on:** June 12, 2021, 09:36:38 pm »

Yes Morgan there is.Good that you brought that up.I'm watching or smelling it to be sure....ha ha.A person does'nt want them to go rancid.That's for sure.It would'nt be good for the future leather either.It's ok yet.
Just got finished staking it in the frame.It has grown in size quite a bit.I've put it back into the warmed up brain slurry tub for overnight.
I brained the 2 deer hides in that slurry too.I'll freeze those for later after twisting/wringing them and rebraining them.
Then I'm pretty sure I'll need to throw this brain slurry away sometime tomorrow.
Total that will be used then is 9#'s in 4 gallons of water for 2 deer hides and 1 beef hide.I know that sounds like a lot but I wanted to be sure and you can't harm it any overbraining the hides.I'm pretty sure it'll be brained good enough now.
Big day tomorrow and the next.

BowEd · « **Reply #54 on:** June 13, 2021, 07:44:46 am »

This beef hide rawhide still feels different than deer.

BowEd · « **Reply #55 on:** June 13, 2021, 08:00:28 pm »

Well after about 6 hours staking in the frame I saw that it needed to be roped and scuffed.Edges were beginning to be dry in frame but not as soft as I'd like.
Now after roping off and on for another 5 hours I'm seeing this beef rawhide does not have the nice stretch to it that deer and buffalo hide has while roping.In fact his beef rawhide even though thinned a fair amount is still a lot thicker than the hair on buffalo I did.
I believe the fibers in beef are a lot tighter than deer or buffalo.I don't believe another braining is the problem solver or solution either.I had serious concerns about the stretching ability of brained beef rawhide prior to doing this.I guss my suspicions were right.As I said earlier about doing hair on beef calves [aluminumsulfate tan] they ended up a lot thicker than deer and harder to stretch.
I'll find some use for it though.Plenty big yet and thick too.

Pappy · « **Reply #56 on:** June 17, 2021, 08:24:25 am »

So are you calling it good Ed , or do you plan on doing something more to it.

Pappy

BowEd · « **Reply #57 on:** June 17, 2021, 09:14:29 am »

Yep Pappy it's a done deal far as I'm concerned.I always find a use for it somewhere.
The fiber structure of beef rawhide [at least the very thick stuff] is just not suited for stretching enough for me to make good brain tan out of it.Too tight.
On another thread I've shown multiple uses for this beef hide rawhide.
I'll do my 2 deer hides later as they are a lot easier.They've been brained and are froze at the moment.They're ready to be roped dry.Got another shirt to put together.Got the sioux lazy stitch beadwork done already to put on it.Got an elk leg possibles bag and another coyote possibles bag to make too.
I've moved to finishing up on some bamboo backed mulberry bows for now.2 other naturally deflexed/reflexed self bows of this mulberry to do yet too.
By then it'll be deer hunting season.

Pappy · « **Reply #58 on:** June 18, 2021, 08:30:59 am »

Is it still just rawhide on just a harder leather even if not really soft but still leather ?? Sometimes I have older deer hides that will have a spot in them that won't seem to take the brains,on soften, not sure if it is scare tissue , but won't seem to get soft no matter what I do, even had 1 that had a spot in the back bone area about the size of a base ball that stayed wet rawhide, once the hide was tanned and soft I just pulled it out, soft all around it but it just wouldn't take, not sure why but seems to be like wood bows, every hide has something challenging about it. Guess that's why I love doing them , always learning something on each one.

Pappy

BowEd · « **Reply #59 on:** June 18, 2021, 03:57:23 pm »

Yes it'll be a more pliable type rawhide now.
Scars on some deer sometimes are better to be cut and resewn.Some can have some doosies in the flanks etc.They never take the smoke on good.I cut and sew them up after braining and before roping sometimes.Baseball stitch on the flesh side.Then after roping and soft I restitch it up with real sinew that's wet or damp.I keep some backstrap sinew around for that.Shrinks tight and won't come out.No need to tie knots with real sinew either.Makes for an invisible stitch line after smoking.
like so.This was an arrow hole.

Primitive Archer