Draw length weirdness

[WhistlingBadger]

Hi, all.  I had Mrs. Badger come out and measure my draw length tonight.  I drew an arrow, had her make a mark where the arrow met the belly, then measured from the inside of the nock to the mark.  I was very surprised to find that (assuming I did that correctly) I am only drawing to 24".  My bow, which was built to be 60# at 28", is only drawing about 47# at 24".

I'm going to try this again tomorrow and see if I get the same result.  (I was really tired out today, so maybe I was drawing short, blah blah blah)

What the heck is going on?  I'm 6'1", not a weakling, with arms that seem about normal length for a guy my size, and reasonably good form (as far as I know).  I'm drawing two under; anchor point is middle fingertip to upper canine tooth.  Any idea why my draw might be so short?  Is this something I need to fix?  It can't be doing much for my arrow speed or penetration.

If anybody remembers my foray into bare shaft tuning a while back, I was puzzled that the arrows that flew best were spined much lower than expected.  I guess this could explain that.  I'm about to buy materials to make some new, heavier arrows, and I'm wondering where this should point me as far as spine and tuning.

OK, thanks for letting me get that off my chest. Any thoughts or suggestions would be welcome.

[TimBo]

It might help if we could see a photo of full draw, or maybe a video of you shooting.  Most people measure to the back of the bow, not the belly, so that will add a bit!

[WhistlingBadger]

Ah.  I feel dumb.  ha ha   That would add an inch and a half...still pretty short.  I'm going to try again tomorrow when I'm not tired, and I'll try to get a picture or two.  T

[PatM]

How experienced are you at making selfbows?   Many people short draw selfbows when they don't totally trust them to hold together.   Every part of the draw gets a little shortchanged and it all adds up.

 However draw length isn't typically measured to the belly side as mentioned.

[bradsmith2010]

my draw varies depending on the bow I shoot, right now I am trying to learn to shoot some Sioux style arrows, average for them was 23 inches, so I am shooting some arrows 24 inches and the bow I am shooting is designed for that draw,, the bow is 55#@24 inches,
I have been drawing about 23,,,24 inches is full draw for that bow,,
just because a bow is designed for a draw, does not mean that is "your" draw,,
if you are comfortable drawing 26 inches,, then get a bow that is designed for that draw to get good perfromance,,,
I can shoot and have shot bows quite a bit that were 28 inches in draw,, but my style has gone more Native and I shoot shorter draw bows now most the time,,
so for Sioux archer,, your 26 inch draw would be too long,, so its all relative,,
the bow I am shooting now is 50 inches long and will shoot a 430 grain arrow 174fps at what some would consider a short draw,, so the bow would be sufficient for hunting,,
if you shot your bow designed for 28 inch draw through a chrono,, at the shorter draw,, you would see its not perfroming as well as a bow designed for the shorter draw would do,, ok sorry I drank to much coffee,,,
by the way, I am 6ft,,and with a forward stance,, its no problem to shoot shorter draws,,
just shoot what you like,, and dont let a predetermined number dictate your shooting syle,,

[willie]

grip style matters some also. the modern "pistol grip" is shot with a high wrist,  while a flatter grip can often be shot with a low wrist or broken wrist. low wrist will lessen your drawlength.  low wrist/high wrist also affects the elbow being locked or not. some shoot  with the elbow being crooked just a bit and the forearm turned away slightly to avoid string slap.

like brad sez, shoot how you like.

[NorthHeart]

A lot of what Pat M said.

But also selfbows/sinew backed bows don't draw as far and as smooth as say a fiberglass/laminated bow.  Call it stacking or whatever, but here's my example.  On a laminated "trad" bow i usually pull 25".  On a self bow im at 23-23.5"(same weight)...on a short 44-48" sinew backed bow i'm literally having trouble getting it past 22.5-23", it just "feels" like time to let loose.  Another thing regarding form is im a snap shooter(nothing to brag about), i anchor at my lip, like fred bear said when he feels his fingers on his face its like a trigger and the arrow lets loose(paraphrasing).  Look at Ryan Gill he kills a lot of stuff and i think hes like 5,8, his draw is 22-23 he snap shoots.  Clay Hays draws further but if you watch his videoes he pulls back and anchors...then you see a completely separate step where he applies more back tension and gets that extra inch of draw, more like a trad shooter.  Also know that wood bows loose poundage as you hold them back, to prove this snap shoot through a chrono, then go again and hold it for a second and and you will see a drop in fps.

I realize you didn't actually ask about all of that LOL, but i guess my point is this...47#@24 measured properly to the BACK of bow is around 50#@25" should easily go 160+ fps with 530gr arrow, plenty fast for deer/hogs and maybe more IMO.  If your hitting consistently where your looking i wouldn't sweat those numbers one bit.

[NorthHeart]

my draw varies depending on the bow I shoot, right now I am trying to learn to shoot some Sioux style arrows, average for them was 23 inches, so I am shooting some arrows 24 inches and the bow I am shooting is designed for that draw,, the bow is 55#@24 inches,
I have been drawing about 23,,,24 inches is full draw for that bow,,
just because a bow is designed for a draw, does not mean that is "your" draw,,
if you are comfortable drawing 26 inches,, then get a bow that is designed for that draw to get good perfromance,,,
I can shoot and have shot bows quite a bit that were 28 inches in draw,, but my style has gone more Native and I shoot shorter draw bows now most the time,,
so for Sioux archer,, your 26 inch draw would be too long,, so its all relative,,
the bow I am shooting now is 50 inches long and will shoot a 430 grain arrow 174fps at what some would consider a short draw,, so the bow would be sufficient for hunting,,
if you shot your bow designed for 28 inch draw through a chrono,, at the shorter draw,, you would see its not perfroming as well as a bow designed for the shorter draw would do,, ok sorry I drank to much coffee,,,
by the way, I am 6ft,,and with a forward stance,, its no problem to shoot shorter draws,,
just shoot what you like,, and dont let a predetermined number dictate your shooting syle,,

NICE!

[Hawkdancer]

Put a nock on your yardstick!? . Like Timbo said, most measure to the back of the bow. . If you are hitting where you are looking, it really doesn't matter!
Hawkdancer

[WhistlingBadger]

Thanks for the insights, guys.  This is my Brisky black locust bow, made by a pro, so I trust it.  No issues there.

There are two reasons this bothers me:  First, I'm not hitting where I'm looking a lot of the time.  My accuracy is still inconsistent, especially past 20 yards.  Second, I hunt elk, and I want to make sure I have enough poundage/penetration to get the job done in a less-than-ideal situation.  So, I might either need to revamp my draw or get a different bow.

[bradsmith2010]

if you want to shoot 28 inch draw then do that,,.. practice at that draw,,make a string wrap at 28 inches and draw to that every time,, you will get used to it,, then your accuracy will get more consistant as well,, dont just guess at the draw,, make it the same every time,, if you have a broadhead,, draw till you feel the head,,etc etc,,
once that draw is ingrained,, you can probably
I made alot of bows for guys that had a different draw than me,, but by the time I finished shooting that bow in,, I could shoot pretty good at that different draw,,its just a matter of doing it consistanly,,
60# at 28 should do great for your elk,,if you want to experiment with a shorter draw bow,, I say do that after elk season,,and learn to shoot your 28 inch bow for now,,

[gutpile]

some people lean into bow when drawing...sneak head forward... that will take a good inch off too..gut

[WhistlingBadger]

OK, I think Brad and Gut had it.  I put a wrap of tape around one of my arrows at 28", so I could feel it touch my finger when I draw.  I immediately realized and fixed a couple lazy habits that had crept into my form.  I hadn't even realized it was wrong, but standing up straight, stretching my bow arm just a bit, pulling back with the shoulder blades, it immediately felt right.  Cleared that up and immediately noticed better consistency in my groups, too.  The tape won't last long and hopefully I won't need it for long, but for now, it's a poor man's clicker.

[HH~]

Almost every guy i have ever measured for draw length are never what they think they are. Almost always short, some way Short.

Brad is correct.lots guys i see shoot selfbow are humped up over bow shooting canted. Which shortens draw a bunch. Then with just a little release creep they are shooting low 20’s draw length. See very few extend frontside and shoot upright with upper body expansion. Not sure why? Then add a static release and you got an arrow hetting released at equivelent of 21” of draw.

HH

[bradsmith2010]

great news, its always great when someone solves a small problem that makes their shooting better,, makes the whole day seem positive..