Flax fiber backing?

[Morgan]

So, for a while now I’ve wanted to grow a sustainable bow garden of sorts. I would like to have sapling bow suitable trees, arrowwood viburnum and dogwood “bushes” and flax annually. In reading about flax the concept of backing intrigued me. I have some questions for anyone with experience using flax for this purpose.

I understand that flax is very resistant to stretch and can overpower a belly easily. This makes me think that ipe would be a good mate for it. Would combed flax fibers make as suitable of a backing for an ipe board bow as boo or hickory would?
What kind of thickness would you look for in the built up fibers?
Is this sort of backing protective, as in will it keep splinters from lifting like a hard backing would, or would it be purely for strength?
Do you think someone could make a press like a micarta press and pre-make backing strip laminates  for future use like an all natural fiberglass backing lam?

[Halfbow]

I've done a few flax fiber backings, but still need to experiment with it more. I don't know the answer to all your questions, but I will tell you what I do know.

I haven't had a thin layer of it overpower a belly yet. Maple is the softest wood I've used it on, and it was fine. It is very strong though. I once had a v-splice glue line fail underneath a thin layer of flax, and nothing catastrophic happened. I didn't even notice it for awhile. The bow held together and could still be shot. (But obviously after I noticed I took it apart to fix it)

I know even a thin layer does some work because, if you reflex the bow during the glue up it will hold some of the reflex. That said, aside from reflexing I've never noticed much performance increase from a flax backing either. Could be I just haven't used it with the right woods on the right design yet.

I imagine it would work well with ipe. But keep in mind that hard backings like hickory and bamboo tend to be much thicker than soft backings, and that will make a big difference. You will need a whole lot of flax and a whole lot of glue to make it as thick as a hard backing. I've never put flax on that thick myself, but I would worry that the weight of the glue would make it not worth it.

Yes, it is protective to the back, partially because its inelasticity prevents the back of the bow from stretching too much, making splinters less likely in the first place.

And yes I see no reason why you couldn't pre-make backing strips. No idea how they would perform compared to fiberglass, but if they were similar that would be really neat.

[Bayou Ben]

I don't have experience with it as a backing, just keep in mind that natural fibers are heavier than wood. 

And bamboo grows really fast, and is an excellent backing or belly in the right design.  Maybe you have room in your bow garden for some boo? 

[willie]

I really like your bow garden idea. especially for arrow stock.

I have done some testing with flax backing and agree with halfbow. ipe seems like a good candidate for an experimentation on account of it having compression qualities that exceed it tension qualiies. that is that it needs to be backed to work its belly to the best. I am not sure if that is because is usually supplied in a milled board. I presume that you are not in a tropical location that would preclude growing ipe in your garden?

In general, my experience with flax and other high modulus backing is that they are effective in the smallest amount required to prevent premature back failure. more than enough tending to overpower the belly.

how one determines the proper amount would be much experimentation I suppose. precasting might be feasible for laminated board bows, but I would more interested in developing techniques for  insitu applications. the flax I have tried to use was speced and supplied as a fine fiber suitable for spinning and string making, but is horrible to use with glue. I have been wanting to try flax tow, as it might be more suitable for a bow back, but would like to hear the input of others in this regard.

[Morgan]

Thanks for the replies guys. I asked about the ipe because I have half a few boards that need to be made into bows but need to get backing for them. If I could grow backing it’d be awesome! I’m going to try to get a flax patch planted this spring along with some shafting plants and transplant some elm sprouts. I transplanted 4 elms about 2’ y’all and pencil thickness early this spring but my 9 year old pulled them up thinking they weren’t supposed to be there. Now to figure out how to convince my missus that the flax patch ain’t a bunch of weeds.

[Hawkdancer]

Tie it up with police tape and hire a dragon to guard it?! . I got some red osier dogwood goin on the garden area, but my wife sort of leaves that to me!
Hawkdancer

[DC]

Flax has nice blue flowers, it can't be a weed

[willie]

if you are growing for bow making purposes, you should know that there is a time during the season, (just after it blooms?maybe) that the fibers are at their strongest.
Commercialy grown flax is grown for seed and fiber, but I do not know if the fiber we usually find on the market has been harvested for strength or maximum yield, or it may be a byproduct of flax harvested for seed.
some research may be warranted for best use for bowmaking etc.
I suspect that if you choose the most appropriate variety for the purpose, and harvested/processed with maximum strength in mind, you might be able to make a primo bow string.

If this if of interest to you, a topic on the flightbow subforum might be interesting

[Morgan]

Willie, the sole purpose would be for bow making use and I will indeed have to research on what species to use and when to harvest. I think it would be awesome to have a bow and quiver full of arrows that 100% came from plants that I planted minus fletching and points. The backing purpose was a side thought.
Just wondering, why would this be a topic for the flight bow section?

[AndrewS]

Flax is also used for building ski.

In Germany you can buy  natural fibre for reinforcement  in composite constructions from the company R+G.

I have some of the stuff but not tested yet.

[willie]

Morgan, got a few extra spaces in that last post,

guys that shoot in the  primitive class in flight are always looking for a lighter flax string

Andrew, does your composite have fibers in the long direction or every direction?

[AndrewS]

take a look.

Most of the fibers are in long direction....

[backtowood B2W]

This looks very interesting Andrew, I have little experience (2 Bows) with flax, but it was difficult to handle as it likes to curl and don't wanna flatten out easy when it is wet.
That woven stuff could make life easier.

[maitus]

Nettle gives much stronger fiber than flax and it grows everywhere .