Author Topic: try using chinaberry?  (Read 5812 times)

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Offline nsherve

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try using chinaberry?
« on: October 12, 2018, 08:10:37 am »
Anybody ever try using chinaberry? It's all over the place where I live, and in the privet, wisteria, kudzu, mimosa, etc. turd group...I'm planning to make an attempt at clearing all this trash out of my property sometime in the not too distant future, so this thought popped into my mind.

Offline Hawkdancer

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Re: try using chinaberry?
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2018, 09:46:15 am »
Don't know about chinaberry, unless it has another name, but the privet is supposed to be good arrow wood.  Kudzu is a grass? weed, I think!  Have fun!
Hawkdancer
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Jerry

Offline nsherve

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Re: try using chinaberry?
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2018, 10:40:54 am »
I've heard the same about privet. Kudzu's a vine. I know no other names for chinaberry tree...doesn't mean there aren't any.

Offline ty_in_ND

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Re: try using chinaberry?
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2018, 11:51:05 am »
Anybody ever try using chinaberry? It's all over the place where I live, and in the privet, wisteria, kudzu, mimosa, etc. turd group...I'm planning to make an attempt at clearing all this trash out of my property sometime in the not too distant future, so this thought popped into my mind.

If no one chimes in on their own experience, would you mind still giving it a shot and seeing what you get out of it? If you have enough of it, you could try doing a few different styles out of it and see what works best.  Then, let us know!  It's always nice to know if there's an invasive that can be used as a bow wood.  Just gives us one more reason to clear it out!
"The best prize that life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing."

Offline nsherve

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Re: try using chinaberry?
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2018, 12:18:17 pm »
I probably will give it a shot... or, at least put it on my round-to-it list.

Offline Bayou Ben

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Re: try using chinaberry?
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2018, 12:29:50 pm »
Quick search on the site:

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=12972.0

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=6908.0

A guy on paleoplanet made one.  Looked really wide, long, and cumbersome.  I wouldn't waste my time, but that's just me.

Offline JohnL

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Re: try using chinaberry?
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2018, 08:30:24 pm »
     -Yes, Chinaberry will make a bow.  I have one hanging on the rack and I want more.  It's a low density soft(ish) wood and seems like it wouldn't make a bow, but I tried it on a whim and was very impressed.  I'm certainly not an authority on the species, with my limited experience, but I'll share with you what I found.

First off, I cut 2 trees on my brother-in-law's Central TX property, sort of by accident–that is, I had memorized the leaves of both the invasive Chinaberry AND the native Western Soapberry aka Wild China Tree (a known bow wood, and lookalike species that has identical yellow berries), and in my head I had cut Soapberry, but then I realized I had cut Chinaberry.  When I cut'em, I thought to myself, this seems like soft, weak, low density stuff, but I loaded it in the truck and brought it home with me.  After I realized what I had cut, I decided to go ahead and try to make some bows from it.  After all, at some point, some bowyer has to try new unproven species, or else we'd never know.
One tree was about 5" in diameter, the other was a sapling pole, not 2" thick.  I would recommend not messing with those skinny sapling poles, because after a few years of growth, the inner heart rings get pithy and are worthless.  I found that these trees had a few 1/8" thick white sapwood rings, then a pale brown transition ring, then a couple of dark brown pithy, almost putty-like rings in the center, that don't make good compression wood on the belly of a bow, so you can't count those in the thickness of your limbs.  I made a skinny mini ELB bow from the little sapling pole, as an experiment and noticed compression failures on the belly, in that dark soft heartwood, but the sapwood is so elastic that it stayed together.  On the second tree, which was older and more established and about 5" in diameter, I got 2 staves from the split.  The bark is fleshy and peels off easily within a day of felling.  I sealed the ends and stuck a layer of duct tape on the peeled backs of the staves (an experiment, to slow drying, which worked well - no checking on the backs) and clamped them to posts, with some corrections clamped-in green, which worked well on this wood.  It took and it stayed, so I recommend correcting string alignment, etc. via green-clamping.  I got a little mold under the duct tape, because it was still so juicy, but it was just on the surface of the cambium and cleaned-off no problem.
I laid out the stave much like any other whitewood.  I had 1 3/4" of limb width to work with, so I left it full width in the inners, then tapered down to about 5/8" tips.  The design was a 61" nearly/slightly bendy handle, narrowed a bit in the grip.  The back is crowned and belly flat, which worked well, as this wood seems very elastic in tension and didn't mind the crowned back at all, nor did it mind all the little humped pin knots from twigs (which looked ugly and troublesome, but were no problem at all).  My bow has that paler-brown transition ring showing on the belly and it seemed to be ok. I was worried, because it's so porous-looking -I could've shoved a sewing needle in the end grain of the early wood, it's so open.  It responded very well to heat treating, which I did at floor tiller and then again after tillering, before drawing it deep.  At 61" in length, it made a forty-something pound bow @ 28" draw.  I draw 29-30", but I stopped at 28", when I saw a hint of set appear, but I'm sure I could safely pull it further, without breaking.
All said, it seems like you could lay out your typical ALB profile, just leave the limbs thicker than normal, to account for the lower density and hi elasticity, so you don't come in under target weight.  Another weird aspect of this wood is that the white sapwood, when wet, oxidizes to a lemon yellow, but then when you work or sand the stave it's a pale yellowish-white again underneath.  I left a little cambium on, which gives the back a nice white and taupe streaked appearance.  I still have the 2nd seasoned stave to work, but I plan to harvest s'more of the stuff when I head back out to the property.  And seeing as how Chinaberry is on the Top Ten most invasive species list in Central TX, it's our duty to chop it down and make bows from it!  That's all the info I can think of at the moment, but lemmee know if you have any other questions.

     –John

Offline JohnL

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Re: try using chinaberry?
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2018, 08:43:56 pm »
Additionally:  While the berries are highly toxic/poisonous, I had no problem working the wood.  I was not bothered by the bark, sap, dust or anything else. No eye or skin irritation, or sneezing, or anything.  That's just my personal experience.  There are some similar-looking Asian invasives that DO cause those symptoms, including temporary blindness and wild sneezing fits!

     –John


Limbit

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Re: try using chinaberry?
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2018, 04:37:33 am »
What John said is true for Chinaberry depending on its growth region. I have it all over the place in Taiwan and have tried it numerous times with zero success. The issue is precipitation and climate differences. It is a fast growing tree, so if it gets the means, it will sprout right on up. It is actually an invasive species in many areas of the States, but can't tolerate cold, so it keeps it to the lower states. The rings on the trees I used were nearly 1cm apart and had paper thin growth distinction. Even still, it showed signs of potentially being a good bow wood should the growth rate slow the hell down. Got my hopes up several times, but always broke toward the final stretch in tillering. Pretty sure from compression failures, but can't 100% remember now. If the late growth rings were thicker, it obviously wouldn't be having these issues and you'd have a fast, light bow. If your area is more dry or has distinct seasonal changes in weather (we don't really here) give it a go. It is a piece of cake to split and easy to work. Be careful when you cut it though or it might just split straight up the tree as it falls. 

Limbit

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Re: try using chinaberry?
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2018, 04:43:17 am »
And I don't know if it matters to you, but I used trees about as round as a volley ball. Tried making one sap-wood heartwood first and then decided the heartwood was probably a bet. Nope. The rest of it got borers in the sapwood sitting around in my shed, so I used it for a BBQ night instead of bows.

Offline JohnL

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Re: try using chinaberry?
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2018, 09:39:43 am »
     Limbit, You make a good point about regional growth rate & habit.  It sounds like in its native habitat its just too happy & healthy, growing fast, but not strong.  When you described the rings, I was amazed at how vastly different they were from what I had cut.  The trees I cut had consistent 1/8" thick late wood rings, separated by maybe a 1/16" of early wood.  The area in Central TX where I felled these trees is prone to extended periods of drought, which causes all the trees to just get by.  For example: I cut an Eastern Red Cedar sapling pole that was maybe 2" thick at the base, for making a walking stick, and when I looked at the cut end and counted the rings I saw it was 35 years old.  The Osage on that property is what you might call "TX Scrub Osage", crotched at eye level, twisted & gnarly, but tough as nails.  We don't have those big tall Osage like they get in states further northeast in its native range.

     –John

Offline mullet

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Re: try using chinaberry?
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2018, 06:47:56 pm »
China Berry is what is called Eastern Mahogany in the SE. The berries got a lot of us in trouble growing up. They are perfect out of sling shots.
Lakeland, Florida
 If you have to pull the trigger, is it really archery?

Offline Swamp Thang

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Re: try using chinaberry?
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2018, 06:03:26 am »
China Berry is what is called Eastern Mahogany in the SE. The berries got a lot of us in trouble growing up. They are perfect out of sling shots.

100% the truth so much fun as a child......now as an adult I loathe those trees

Offline Pat B

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Re: try using chinaberry?
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2018, 08:34:40 am »
Country folks here in the south place the leaves around their yards and entrances to their houses to keep fleas and other crawly critters at bay.
 I always thought china berry was too straight to build a bow with  ::)  ...but I've seen some nice ones.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline nsherve

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Re: try using chinaberry?
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2018, 09:14:35 am »
I've never heard about it keeping bugs out of the house...it'd be nice if it worked for lovebugs and ladybugs.....It does grow really fast, and all over the place.