Back ring violation?

[Morgan]

What constitutes a violated back? I was scrapping cambium off of a hackberry stave and nicked the wood on the back. Wasn't very deep at all, and I scraped it smooth easily. is this a violation, or do you have to cut through the ring? If it is, I'll just rawhide back it, if not I'll leave it as is. Tried to get a picture but you can barely see it in person and doesn't show up in a picture at all.

[willie]

Good question, as I guess it depends on how deep the violation goes in a proportional sort of way. Is the outer ring very thick compared to the violation? Some hardwood staves have very dense late wood and very soft earlywood, while others, may have early and late closer in strength to each other. Its kind of subjective and a judgement call since you have no way to examine the early and late portions separately.

you might be able to tell something from the way the early and late differ, from how they cut or tool on a scrap piece.

I guess since the strains maximize at the surface of the back, a weak, thick or soft earlywood layer close nearby to the surface is a place where trouble begins

[mikekeswick]

Good question, as I guess it depends on how deep the violation goes in a proportional sort of way. Is the outer ring very thick compared to the violation? Some hardwood staves have very dense late wood and very soft earlywood, while others, may have early and late closer in strength to each other. Its kind of subjective and a judgement call since you have no way to examine the early and late portions separately.

you might be able to tell something from the way the early and late differ, from how they cut or tool on a scrap piece.

I guess since the strains maximize at the surface of the back, a weak, thick or soft earlywood layer close nearby to the surface is a place where trouble begins

Dead on the money!
This is the sort of question experience can answer but how do you get the experience.........by bending that stick!

[bjrogg]

A good job tillering will also help spread that stress. I have come to like taking the cambium off with my high pressure power washer. It's fast and leaves back perfect. A few guys have tried the car wash and so far everyone seems happy. ( not sure about the car wash owner)
Bjrogg

[bjrogg]

Morgan I don't know how to post the link, but if you search "removing Bark and cambium with power washer " it should bring up a thread that has pictures and explains everything
Bjrogg

[DuBois]

I had the same question a while ago. Not sure how to attach a link but if you search "violated" you will see a lot of good conversation on the subject.

[Badger]

  Most of the hackberry I have worked has pretty thick rings. If it is really just a shallow nick as you suggest I wouldn't worry about it too much. A true violation goes all the way through the ring but if I get a deep nick I always chase another one.

[Morgan]

Thanks guys.
Rings on this piece is pretty thin. The nick was very shallow, I think it may hold, but I may try to back it anyway.  I do need to try a pressure washer. My friend has one and used it to debark the cedar logs in his house and to flesh hides. I ought to just bite the bullet and buy one.

[Stick Bender]

 If it's a nagging concern to you raw hide backing is a win win and it adds surprisingly little mass  to the bow !

[Morgan]

Think I'll pick up some goat rawhide to try. How do y'all finish the hide for waterproofing and to dull it down. Would prefer not to paint it.

[George Tsoukalas]

Back it to be sure but for be it is only a violation if cut completely through into the next ring. It is usually easy to see. Jawge

[Stick Bender]

I got this raw hide that was probably cured with lye hence the dark color this bow was sealed with tru oil & the raw hide part was not that shinny If this bow had not given up the ghost I was just going to dull it with wax ! The dark raw hide I believe I got from Mike at Pinehollow long bows you might try there if your dont want to paint or stain .