Hawthorn longbow - work in progress

[FilipT]

This is the new bow I am working on. First time I am using hawthorn. I cut it last year in November so it still needs to dry some more.
I must say this wood is very different from anything I ever worked with.

White wood seems like normal white wood (like hazel for example) but its beautiful reddish core seems like a different wood, for example elm. Core seems like its composed of long strings and when you pull a draw knife, you could easily take away at least feet long piece of wood. Draw knife takes away perfectly along this weird string like grain. It has huge amount of knots.

That managed to make my work faster and also didn't dull my knife.

Here are some basic dimensions:
Length: 190 cm
Handle: 150 mm long, 35 x 25 mm in cross section
Tips: 12 x 12 mm

My goal weight is around 80 - 90#. It was said in somewhere that these dimensions would give on a ash a 100# bow. So I think that would give me enough room to make tiller even and than shave off excess to bring weight down.

Back profile


Belly showing slight reflex (around 15 mm)


Knots


More knots


Back of the bow showing small branch


Back of the bow with its many knots


Reddish color of the core, too bad its not more visible on camera

[stuckinthemud]

Hawthorn is lovely to work with but that looks like a challenge.

[joachimM]

I've made a few hawthorn bows, lovely wood but mind those lateral belly pins (3rd pic!)
Since wood is much weaker in compression perpendicular to the grain you risk having a weak spot at such belly pins, running over half the width of the belly.

[upstatenybowyer]

I'm working with some hawthorn right now as well. I tried it once before but failed. I was very picky about finding a clear piece this time and left plenty of width and thickness to start. Gonna take this one slow.

Any input/experience working with hawthorn would be greatly appreciated! Let us know how it goes if you don't mind 

[joachimM]

I my experience, hawthorn gives you little warning before breaking rather explosively, especially when the belly was toasted. Little pins (or larger flaws) on the back will be where it breaks. I think it would be a great wood for sinew-backing.

Joachim
 

[simson]

I have made some hawthorn bows, and my experience is the knots are the critical portions. Same like dogwood.
Your stave seeems to be challange, so good luck!

[FilipT]

Guys I think 3rd and 4th picture knots will not be much of a problem because they will disappear. I plan to make radius on edges, it will not transform cross section into "D", but it will be much more comfortable to hold. Bow is very narrow in places where these knots are and knots are very small actually, so I think radius will help removing them.

I am more worried on the knot on the side on 4th picture.

Also hawthorn had ridiculous amount of these knots all over! I have never seen anything like this before. I am mostly worried on those on the side.

[joachimM]

If you're worried about knots, patch them. Sisal fibre has the same color and can be applied With hide glue. Sand afterwards and you'll hardly notice once finishes. And sisal has about same elasticity modulus as wood but stretches more. Ideal patchinh stuff IMHO.

[loefflerchuck]

I've only made one hawthorne bow so far. I used a clean small diameter branch. Perhaps I asked too much from the crowned back 55" bow. It blew up at 26". I have a longer larger limb I will try eventually. In my opinion it is not a great undiscovered bow wood, but I want to make a good bow from what I have.
 Does anybody know if it is weaker in tension or compression?  To me it seemed like it was tension weak, but I also had a crowned back. If it benefits from a backing I will use one next time.

[FilipT]

This is what Jaroslav (expert warbow maker says)

Hawthorn (Crataegus spp.)

SG 0.7-1.1
Tension 9
Compression 8
Response 7, 9 after heat treatment.

A common small shrub with a hard and heavy beige or ochre colour wood. This would be one of the best bowwoods available, if it wasn't so very difficult to get a good piece. It seasons and works like osage, but its necessary to seal everything. Its "sponginess" can be improved by heat treatment. Only bows up to 70# are reported, due to difficulty of obtaining staves.

[joachimM]

Hawthorn is closely related to pear, and is often used as a scion for it. If it behaves like pear, its very good bow wood. But the knots...backed with sinew it should be great.

FYI, pear has very similar properties as yew. Juvenile wood (branches, saplings) is even more flexible.
My fastest self bow at 10gpp so far was a straight hawthorn sapling, toasted belly: 53.5", 33# at 27", 216 g weight, 0.5 cm visible set after shooting. shot 175-178 fps at 10gpp, just over 200 m distance. I broke it when testing its speed  at 28"... at a pin on the back.

[FilipT]

Bow lost 60 grams of water in two days and got over 1" of reflex. I had to immediately clamp it to an "U profile" where it will slowly and safely dry.

[PatM]

Hawthorn is closely related to pear, and is often used as a scion for it. If it behaves like pear, its very good bow wood. But the knots...backed with sinew it should be great.

FYI, pear has very similar properties as yew. Juvenile wood (branches, saplings) is even more flexible.
My fastest self bow at 10gpp so far was a straight hawthorn sapling, toasted belly: 53.5", 33# at 27", 216 g weight, 0.5 cm visible set after shooting. shot 175-178 fps at 10gpp, just over 200 m distance. I broke it when testing its speed  at 28"... at a pin on the back.

Are they that closely related?  Seems that trees do not have to be that closely related for grafting purposes.

I thought the scion was the grafted on piece. 

[joachimM]

PatM: my mistake, stock, not scion. Me no being native speaker Inglese 
They aren't the closest of relatives, but do belong to the same subfamily of apples, pears, medlar, ... basically anything susceptible to fire blight...

[PatM]

It would surely work the other way just not sure of people want to optimize hawthorn production.