Osage in the NE?

[swotavator]

Hi all,
I have some free time to devote to bow making (after rediscovering the joys while building my 4YO a 36" red oak pyramid bow).  I'm a big warbow enthusiast, but realize it is not wise to jump right in. 
The idea is to build a few bows, working up to harder things, whilst also building my other skills (like arrow-making) and strength.  Here is what I'm thinking:
1 - 80 lb hickory-backed osage
2 - 120 lb boo-backed ipe
3 - osage self bow - IDK is 140 too much?
4 - yew self bow - 160+

So I have found that the online sources of long staves in osage and yew for self-bows are reliable and reasonable.  I also have nearby (in NJ) sources for hickory and ipe lumber.
The only thing I don't have nearby is a reasonably cheap supply of osage lumber.

Can anyone recommend:
-a local source I may be overlooking (NJ area)
-a good cheap online source
-an alternative belly wood / backing combo that will stand up to 80#, be forgiving to work with, at something like 76-77 NTN?
Here is my favorite local exotic lumber supplier:
http://www.jaegerlumber.com/var/m_7/7a/7a5/689178/740176-jaeger%20hardwoods%20catalog%202016.pdf

[Eric Krewson]

If I was going to back osage it would be with bamboo. I have made a bunch of hickory backed red oak bows with no problem, the last bow I backed with hickory was red cedar and the backing failed.

I have made at least 50 bamboo backed osage bows with no failures.

My point is; back cheap stuff with hickory but I would want something more substantial if I am backing the good (expensive) stuff.

[Del the cat]

1 and 3 seem at odds with eachother to me.
Why back an Osage bow that is 80# if an Osage of 140# doesn't need backing?
Del

[swotavator]

Thanks,. So maybe I will do a hickory backed red oak (or would white oak be better in compression? Depends on the board?)

The idea with backing Osage is that I was expecting it to be a quarter sawn board, whereas the stave would be a dried, seasoned whole stave with sapwood intact.  I recall seeing very heavy bows like thus, no?

[WillS]

Just a thought - making an 80lb bow using hickory and some other wood is a vastly different job than making a 120lb bow from bamboo and ipe.  They're two different animals altogether.

Personally, I'd pick one set of timbers you can obtain over and over again, and make a whole range of bow weights using them, from 80lb up to your final goal (160 I suppose*) Otherwise the experience you gain with the hickory/Osage for example will be more or less useless when dealing with a super-fast and physically small/narrow combo like boo/ipe.

As for the yew bow at the end of your list, you'd normally expect a 160lb yew bow from somebody who's been working with yew for about 5 years constantly pushing it to the limit. 

I'm by no means saying it can't be done - of course it can - but it will be incredibly difficult to make the bows you've listed without a whole load of others in between.  And that's not counting the bows that blow up, chrysal on you or otherwise end up unsatisfactory. 

*What weight can you shoot at the moment?  160lb is the upper limit of most people, and the number of guys who can shoot that weight around the world can be pretty much counted on one hand.  It's not important in terms of what bows you want to make, I'm just curious

[swotavator]

Haven't pulled a really heavy one, but I can deadlift 340x5 soon hoping it won't be too much of an issue by the time I get there.

[swotavator]

But that being said, it looks like ipe and bamboo are the winners.

[mikekeswick]

A heavier bow is a light one scaled up. Wood has a max strain that it can take. A well made 40lb bow will feel the same strain that a well made 140# bow will. There is just more wood to spread the load over.
Hickory and boo are both equally good backings with a bit different properties but both will work. If hickory backings fail then the grain wasn't straight enough.
I don't know why Will thinks making bows from hick/ipe is vastly different to other woods? Sure different woods have different properties but the process of making a bow is the same regardless of wood type. What will be different is the shape and dimensions of the finished bow.
Try any and all combos you can get hold off whilst learning the basics! You learn through making mistakes then gaining experience. The failures teach you much more.

[WillS]

I was thinking mainly of the difference between a 120lb boo/ipe bow, which will be very narrow and physically small in the hand, and a 160lb American yew self bow, which would be exactly the opposite.  If you were to cut your teeth on the boo/ipe without a whole heap of experience with self yew bows, it's almost a guarantee that the yew bow would be made incorrectly. 

Although, I'm pretty sure if you made an 80lb Osage bow, and just "scaled it up" when making a boo/ipe bow, you'd be looking at a genuine miracle if it came out at 120

[willie]

you'd be looking at a genuine miracle

I suppose that it is all in the scaling.

Not to sidetrack the OP about sourcing materiel's, but does anyone have good recommendations for how to scale up properly?

[warpath]

I'm in South Jersey right across the river from Philly. If you send me a pm I can go through my contacts and see what I can find for you.

  G-Monee