Black cherry recommendations, And boom she goes

[Marc St Louis]

BC does not like being highly stressed, it will chrysal if you look at it sideways.  Keep the belly as flat as possible if you want any chance of a durable bow. 

[FilipT]

That type kink is reason I threw away one hazel longbow some time ago. Kink was so severe that when put on tillering tree, it was impossible to align tips in same horizontal line without making limb (without kink) much weaker so it matches the one with the kink. In the process, bow lost tens of pounds surely.

[BowEd]

Mo....I made a flat bellied 64" sinewed bow once with only 4" of reflex that eventually got compression chrysals on the belly even after thousands of shots.It's wonderful sweet shooting wood as commented about but does not like being stressed or put into a more stressful design as mentioned.Flatter profiled bows should last longer.Still got some 68" premier looking staves yet that will get a flatter profile finished look when made into bows.
Because of it's lighter mass density to avert from any hand shock a flat bellied long D bow in a flatter profile should work for you.I'd probably at least rawhide back it too.Just my two cents anyway.

[Marc St Louis]

Mo....I made a flat bellied 64" sinewed bow once with only 4" of reflex that eventually got compression chrysals on the belly even after thousands of shots.It's wonderful sweet shooting wood as commented about but does not like being stressed or put into a more stressful design as mentioned.Flatter profiled bows should last longer.Still got some 68" premier looking staves yet that will get a flatter profile finished look when made into bows.
Because of it's lighter mass density to avert from any hand shock a flat bellied long D bow in a flatter profile should work for you.I'd probably at least rawhide back it too.Just my two cents anyway.

You were lucky it lasted that Long Ed.  I remember telling you when you were making that bow that it would chrysal

[BowEd]

Not to side track the intended subject thread here but yes Marc my evaluation of black cherrys' ability has changed and I can be a hard head.....lol.Chrysalls are insidious and heart breaking.Once they are started it's all over even if laminated over with some other denser material or even sanded away and retillered.If it's design is the same it'll happen again.Best to just start over with a less stressful design.
Guess this comment is still about the woods capabilities.I feel it is a good bow wood yet though but not at the top of my list.

[Mo_coon-catcher]

I finally got around to getting it to bend. I think I've got it ready to brace up. I've pulled the tips far back about 7" from the back of the bow. With the long string I was using has it pulling 100# at 25". I know the tiller will shift a bit when going from long string to full brace. But any one see anything that needs a bit of tweaking before bracing and pulling further?

Thanks,
Kyle

[Mo_coon-catcher]

The other day I got it braced up and started pulling back. The first time on the tree I only pulled it up to about 20", about 70#, and checked for any signs of damage. Every thing looked good, no splinter, set, or fretting. So back on the tree and I started to inch it on up to 100#. To me nothing in the bend stood out, but apparently the price of cherry didn't want to take the stress, as soon as I touched 100# i got a nice bang and a bunch of shrapnel. Atleast it made it back to a 25-26" draw before letting go. I've got several more stages of similar length and straitness. So I'll tweak the design a bit with some paper backing to see if a liitle extra help in tension will let it survive. If not I'll keep tweaking to see how heavy I can push cherry until it quits exploding.

I did manage to get a video of the failure, it was definitely worth videoing. I'll see if I can get it off my phone.

Kyle

[WillS]

Rats, that's a bummer!  Sorry it didn't work out.

You can see from your recent pictures that it's doing an awful lot of bending in the middle of each limb, and none in the handle or tips.  I tend to find that when tillering something I'm not sure about getting the whole thing evenly stressed as soon as possible is a good way to avoid potential failures.  The handle definitely could have been working a lot more, to help distribute the strain. 

Regardless, it'll be interesting to see if you can get it to work with a different stave.  Good luck!

[Mo_coon-catcher]

Thanks for te advice. I see what you mean now that I have it pointed out. I wonder if I had the handle bending appropriately and the tips too if if would've held up for the extra 7" of draw it needed. On the next try I'll get the tiller a bit more rounded and get it a bit closer to full draw weight before bracing. See if that reduced strain will get closer.

Kyle

[meanewood]

I agree with Will about getting those stresses evened out early.

If your working with a wood you know, your experience can allow you wait for that center to come round.
When aiming for a heavy draw weight but not knowing if it can handle the stress, every inch of the bows needs to be doing its bit!

[Del the cat]

Sorry... but it beggars belief!
Here's a summary of the story so far:-
Ask for recommendations regarding wood.
Everyone says, it isn't suitable and will fail.
Bow fails.
Now some people start poring over the subtleties of the tiller
Del (slaps forehead and exits stage left)

PS. I'm just try to save Mo Coon catcher getting lured into wasting his time having another go with unsuitable wood.

[Stringman]

  Now that's the summary I been waiting on!!   

[WillS]

Subtleties of tiller?!  What?!

That's like telling somebody a yew bow won't work, and when they make it with the wrong section and tiller a hinge into it and the bow breaks going "yep, told you so."

Two people said they didn't think it would work.  Others have offered suggestions on how to make it work.  That's a long shot from "everyone says it will fail."

Jaro has written on black cherry "It might be worth experimenting to see how good it is in tension to make a low stressed warbow design, as longbows in sporting weights (around 50#) made from this wood, outshoot everything else - including laminates."

[Stringman]

Well, I wasn't tryin to start an argument and generally avoid saying "I told ya so", but 100# is hardly a low stressed war bow. Moreover, just because only 2 people posted that it wouldn't work, it might still ring as a consensus if all were polled.

I'd like to point out that nobody is telling anyone what to do, but when he asked our recommendation he kinda was wanting our opinion. Jus sayin.

And if anyone else starts a cherry bow build and asks "what do you think?" I will hold to my convictions that it is not a proper bow wood. Brittle, prone to chrysal and likely to fail before completion. I'd almost take odds on that bet.

[WillS]

Perhaps I'm stubborn, but I've always believed that if a species of wood can make a 50lb bow, it can make a 150lb bow if treated properly 

The majority a few years ago said hazel would never go above 50lb, and yet two bowyers took it to 160lb when they completely reversed the cross section.  Same with holly, and a fair while ago with ash.  You still get people today insisting ash needs heat treatment and a heavily trapped back to make a decent bow, which is fundamentally incorrect!  It's about trying new things, and seeing what happens. 

If nobody pushes the boat out and gets crazy, we'd all be sat reading the same out of date rubbish on forums doing nothing new