2016 Primitive Archer Bow Trade Sign up and Information

[lebhuntfish]

#2  We've a few individuals who are not participating as they should. I've sent out a few PM's asking those individuals who are making bows for these guys to slow down a bit. We may have to do some shuffling on some names. No biggie. I'm not going to have a few slackers ruin this years trade for everybody else. I'm going to eliminate it early so we have less chance of surprises at the end.

You guys are doing a tremendous job. Keep it up and thanks again for participating.

Fred

That's great management Fred......thank you for all your work to make this a huge success.

Drew

Way to go Fred!
Patrick

[Sidmand]

I don't have any experience with the HB moisture but do have a pin type meter I purchased years ago online. Only used it a couple of times. It shows surface moisture but doesn't tell you what's going on deeper in the wood. If I'm not
positive that the stave is dry I will take it to rough floor tiller and then keep it in the house for 2 or 3 weeks to let it stabilize. You can also weigh it every few days untill it stops losing weight.

Thanks for the info turtle!  That's what I was going to do first, but was thinking of getting the meter as a second/backup indicator.  If I can get it cheap I might still try it out, but when I split that wood this weekend I will just try to get them floor tillered and put them in my bedroom under the bed.  They aught to dry out the rest of the way in there fairly quickly and safely.

[ty_in_ND]

I don't know if it would be better to ask this question here (since it is for the bow I'm building) or if I should make a new thread for it, but I'll try here 1st.

 I've been reading a bit of TTBB vol 4, gleaning information from it for the bow I'm going to build, when I got to Badger's chapter about the Mass Principle.  What he wrote makes sense to me and I'd like to build this bow using this principle as a guideline.  I have two questions that I didn't see addressed (maybe I missed it), but I'm sure someone around here might have the answers:

1) Does backing the bow change the end mass (if you do not perry reflex it; I did see you should reduce weight if perry reflexing)? Example: would a rawhide backed osage bow and an osage selfbow have the same weight if they were both built the same shape, length, draw weight, and draw length?

2) The formula says to add to the weight of the bow if there is "induced" reflex (but makes the distinction that if you perry reflex you should lower the weight).  Would flipping the tips before glue-up of a backed bow be considered an example of induced reflex?

Thanks!

(edit: 1st question to distinguish bewteen a backed bow that's left flat vs a backed bow that's perry reflexed)

[Blaflair2]

I haven't been doing much work. Still pretty cold in the shop with no heat. I brought in my black locust recurve to get it to equalize and do some heat bending. Still not sure what direction I'm going for sure.

[Ranasp]

Ok looks like some poor jerk is going to get my first attempt at a bow.  Literally just one week ago I got my hands on the bowmaker's bible vol 1 and 2, a draw knife, and an offer of some well cured black locust and ironwood from a guy who started making bows but dropped it due to family stuff and other hobbies intruding.  So I'm trying my hand at it, and everyone here can behold the comedy show this will likely end up being. 

As for me, I hate to ask for anything when the person I'm paired with will likely get a junky stick, but I'm a right hander shooting 43-55# at 28". 

[PlanB]

Keep a positive attitude, this is supposed to be fun, failure is an option, you have until August if the first doesn't work out, and show your work and ask questions. You'll produce something to be proud of. Remember Plan B.

[Fred Arnold]

Welcome to you Ranasp!!!

Ok looks like some poor jerk is going to get my first attempt at a bow.  Literally just one week ago I got my hands on the bowmaker's bible vol 1 and 2, a draw knife, and an offer of some well cured black locust and ironwood from a guy who started making bows but dropped it due to family stuff and other hobbies intruding.  So I'm trying my hand at it, and everyone here can behold the comedy show this will likely end up being. 

As for me, I hate to ask for anything when the person I'm paired with will likely get a junky stick, but I'm a right hander shooting 43-55# at 28". 

I know at least 2 old retired guys that are going to help make sure you get it right. Isn't that right half eye?

[half eye]

Absolutely.....failure is not an option. With this particular group of people aint no way ya do anything but good.   

And, welcome to the trade
rich

[Stixnstones]

Went ahead and did some dry heatin, so gonna see has that turns out. Figure if that dont work just gonna steam the whole thing. Also got another hackberry blank goin.

[half eye]

Lookin good stix

The other day when I was steaming I was going to tell y'all that I had a steaming "thing" in the how to section....but decided to just take some pics and post them for anyone who may wish to use the stuff.

First off I never steam wood more than 5 minuets ((up to 3/4 thick) and never more than 10 min at one time. A couple things with that, when the bow comes out of the steam it is less than 5 seconds to complete the bend ....no not a misprint. I either make my bends by hand for myself and "multi bender for other folks bow. As soon as the wood comes out from under the tin foil....right to the jig and bent, right in front of the stove and your done.

The pot is a "pasta" cooker and I use it because it is oval in shape.

anyway here are the pics and if there's any ? please ask
rich

[Fred Arnold]

Neat set up there Rich. Can you tell us what those other slots cut in the board are for?

Ty, I hate to admit it but I don't know anything about mass principle although I've seen some terrible results on a couple of my earlier bows from not understanding and paying attention to it. Possibly Badger or others with more knowledge will point you in the right direction.

[Stixnstones]

Half eye , is that recipe for white woods? I got whole rig for steamin, two 4" x 4' pipe with a 4" T in the middle. Steam the whole thing than rite to the caul. I've done osage and usually "cook" it for an hour or more. Any advise is greatly appreciated.

[turtle]

1) Does backing the bow change the end mass (if you do not perry reflex it; I did see you should reduce weight if perry reflexing)? Example: would a rawhide backed osage bow and an osage selfbow have the same weight if they were both built the same shape, length, draw weight, and draw length?

I haven't tried to build using the mass principle but would assume that the rawhide backed bow would weigh more, because it only protects the bow and doesn't add to the performance like a wood or sinew backing does.  You would have to add the weight of the rawhide to your total mass.

2) The formula says to add to the weight of the bow if there is "induced" reflex (but makes the distinction that if you perry reflex you should lower the weight).  Would flipping the tips before glue-up of a backed bow be considered an example of induced reflex?

Im not familiar enough with the mass principle to give you a good answer. I would think that flipping the tips would be considered induced reflex .

[half eye]

Stix.....I've bent osage both ways lateral (snake) and recurves and whoop-de-doos. Never more than what I said. The reason for that is thats long enough to get the wood to 212 going longer just boils out the "good-stuff" from the wood.......most problems happen when there is a delay between "out of the steam to the actual bend" if it is more than about 15 seconds you are allready too late. They used to make wagon wheels up here and my bud has 4 "half-rims" for 48" wheels that are 3X6 bent in a half circle with no issues to the wood at all and they are more than 100 years old.....those are steamed but also shot with steam during the whole process.

Fred The slots and "rounds make 4 different radius type bends all the way from long (high slot on the left) to short static turns slot far to right.....the parrallel slots on top Is when I want to straighten snake.....I lign that up first wher I want to straighten and set the block on the floor below the stove.....out of the steam ...tip under the cupboard toe kick and edge bend in the slot.

[PlanB]

First off I never steam wood more than 5 minuets ((up to 3/4 thick) and never more than 10 min at one time. A couple things with that, when the bow comes out of the steam it is less than 5 seconds to complete the bend ....no not a misprint.

Well, that's a new one on me. Most every steaming wood source says 45 min. to an hour per inch. But if it works for you on your bows, I certainly believe you, and I'm going to try it that way next time. Can't argue with success! Thanks for the explanation.