Author Topic: R/D bows  (Read 10213 times)

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Offline PlanB

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Re: R/D bows
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2015, 09:26:36 pm »
How is a R/D stave self bow made?

Is it better look for a deflexed stave and reflex the tips with heat or steam, or do you look for a reflexed stave, and deflex the handle?

Or do you start out with something straight, for preference, and add both?

Or any of the above, and it really doesn't make a difference?

Well.... I left out finding one naturally with all the curves already in place -- but that one I could probably figure out for myself...  :laugh:
I love it when a plan B comes together....

Offline jayman448

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Re: R/D bows
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2015, 09:53:53 pm »
It was explained to me as its the forgiveness of a longbiw with the zip of a recurve. That is probably way overly simplustic but thats how i understand it and its good enough for me xDp

Offline bow101

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Re: R/D bows
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2015, 10:24:33 pm »
Dont know about Selfbows but R/D laminates seem to draw smoother and I think they take less set in the long run but I may be wrong about that.

I do know one thing for sure My takedown is smother than silk and has good cast,  having said that I will make another for sure.  Why would I want to shoot a bow that performs mediocre.  ::)
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Offline bushboy

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Re: R/D bows
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2015, 04:37:50 am »
I like a reflexed stave to start and a little kink at the handle is easy enough within reason.i love elm because it bends like butter and is easily manipulated for that reason.
Some like motorboats,I like kayaks,some like guns,I like bows,but not the wheelie type.

Offline Springbuck

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Re: R/D bows
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2015, 10:41:03 am »
Thanks SB It's going to take me a bit to digest all this. Hope your fingers didn't cramp up typing all that ;)

I did it between surgical cases over the course of 12 hours or so, so no big.

Offline Springbuck

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Re: R/D bows
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2015, 10:41:47 am »
It was explained to me as its the forgiveness of a longbiw with the zip of a recurve. That is probably way overly simplustic but thats how i understand it and its good enough for me xDp

Yeah, it kinda is.  It's a darn good hybridization of the features.

Offline Springbuck

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Re: R/D bows
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2015, 10:55:46 am »
  Plan B;  with self bows you take what you can get.  I prefer to reflex a deflexed stave over a form gently with heat. But, I often do find a stave that dries or grows with just too much reflex to handle normally, like 8" or something.  So you can kink it back at the handle, or at the fades on each side, to get the total tip reflex to a manageable level.  Either way.  It helps to rough them down a bit first, of course, and it helps if the original deflex or reflex the stave had is even and symmetrical.

   Bushboy is right, elm and some other white woods, and even osage and locust will tolerate a pretty big concentrated bend, even when thick, and really it only takes a few degrees.  I have done all kinds of things just to learn about it.  Like chopping and splicing at the handle, thinning and then building back up after bending, I even cut several saw kerfs to a consistent depth in the belly side of the handle, made the bend and then glued in shims.

I do think this works best in laminates, because Perry reflexing the right materials is like magic.  But it's great with selfbows, too, and they shhot, esp since you have tempered the belly.  I like that it is easier to bring the tips into alignment than it is with recurves, and that long gradual curves are much easier to convince the wood to settle into.  I like that you can make a mildly R/D Molly and not have lateral tip issues much.

Technically, if you make a flatbow that takes a little set, heat treat the belly and flip the tips a bit, that is a R/D bow, but I think that engineering the deflex into the handle and getting that advantage is better.

Offline steve b.

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Re: R/D bows
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2015, 11:27:01 am »
I'm getting ready to post a couple of DVD's in the Trading Post section.  One of them is a new video that I got called, "Building the sinew backed bow" by Mike Yancey.  In it he takes a straight stick of osage and turns it into an R/D bow with sinew.  There are several aspects to his technique that I have never seen or heard of before and I plan to experiment with them myself.  He puts a significant amount of bend into his staves and claims that, at least with osage, most of it stays forever.
If you are interested in the video look for my post in the trade section.......

Offline ccase39

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Re: R/D bows
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2015, 05:42:32 pm »
Ill add what I have learned from recent experience breaking two nice R/D bows during tillering. R/D bows need to be a lot thinner than other bows you may make. If your backing is more than an 1/8 of an inch thick or so you will have very little room for error when tillering. This happened to me twice. Once on a bamboo backed Osage bow and once on and Osage backed bamboo with Padauk accent strip. In both cases as I was trying to get it to weight it got to the point where my belly wood was thinner than my backing. Instead of just settling for an underweight bow I pushed it and broke both of them. From now on I will make sure than my backing is under 1/8 of an inch.
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Offline ccase39

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Re: R/D bows
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2015, 05:45:04 pm »
  Stretch out a piece of string that will give you a zero brace height then subtract 3".

So lay the string right on the belly wood to the nocks or just nock to nock without much tension?
Reading
The Traditional Boyers Bible Vol 1
The Bent Stick

Working on bow #7

Offline PlanB

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Re: R/D bows
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2015, 10:21:28 pm »
I like a reflexed stave to start and a little kink at the handle is easy enough within reason.i love elm because it bends like butter and is easily manipulated for that reason.

Thanks bushboy! That's what I would have guessed might be preferred, but I didn't know.

I do wonder if heat treating to create reflex is any different to the wood keeping its shape than creating deflex. When you heat treat to reflex something, are you compressing the back fibers to do it?

How does that work when it has to bend in the opposite direction when shooting -- like in a working recurved tip that was heat treated in? (I'm talking about just a simple wood stave bow, not backed or laminated.) How can it keep its shape?

I love it when a plan B comes together....

Offline scp

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Re: R/D bows
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2015, 07:41:43 pm »
Has anyone here heat bend a straight bow and turn it into a deflex-reflex bow?

Offline bushboy

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Re: R/D bows
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2015, 03:30:40 am »
yes,here's a elm made from straight stock.
Some like motorboats,I like kayaks,some like guns,I like bows,but not the wheelie type.

Offline bushboy

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Re: R/D bows
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2015, 03:37:30 am »
Front profile.
Some like motorboats,I like kayaks,some like guns,I like bows,but not the wheelie type.

blackhawk

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Re: R/D bows
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2015, 06:40:06 am »
Has anyone here heat bend a straight bow and turn it into a deflex-reflex bow?

Ive made and posted a bunch over the last few years...but they were floor tillered staves and not bows before i heat  bent em. Its best to do it before you tiller it out all the way as itll wanna keep more of its induced shape