Violated?

[DuBois]

I have often wondered about just how far into a ring someone can scrape without going through it and still be considered "unviolated". I know that I have read about yew having major violations and being just fine, and then on the other hand about being meticulous around osage knots and pins.
So, I am still unsure on this topic. And since I have one with just such a spot now being worked on, it seems time to ask.

Can I delve slightly lower than pristine on an 1/8" osage ring at one small section of, say 1/2" wide by 2 or 3 inches long on a bow back without going through that ring, and be considered intact on that ring or does this mean it is violated, or is it up to personal interpretation?

And either way, wouldn't this still hold up if feathered out right with surrounding area?

Thanks for your time gents,
Doobs

[Danzn Bar]

Wow........good thought.. now your looking into the details ...I think it does matter , that's why thin ring bows has a tendencies to lift slinters ...But that's JMHO, let's see what some of the others have to say...............
DBar

[George Tsoukalas]

It will not be violated unless you go through to the other side.

I usually leave thin ringed bows a little wider.  How wide is it now?

Yew is a different case. Often when the sapwood is reduced rings are violated since they are so thin. I've only made a couple of yew bows.

My site has more.

http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/index.html

Jawge

[bowandarrow473]

Great thought DuBois, I honestly don't know, I would guess that as long as you don't cut through to the next ring and feather the indentation you should still have a string of continuos fibers and thereby a un violated back.

Be meticulous and careful and I think that bow will turn out just fine. Just my .02 though, and there are a lot of people who know bow making much better than me.

Good luck on your bow!

[JonW]

I have seen and made bows of Osage with violated rings. I have also saw bows fail from violated rings. I can't give any definitive scientific answers though. If the ring is intact and not "broken" through it will usually survive. Your mileage may vary

[Danzn Bar]

JonW,
good point , Mileage may be the issue.....

[Badger]

  On osage I don't go any deeper than fractions of a millimeter that come off with scraping off the early wood from the ring above it. With hickory and other fat growth ring white woods I scrape them deep enough to clean them up of ridges and things. I will occasionally sane a nick or tool mark out of osage and haven't had any problems doing that. For the record I have often wondered the exact same question and I have been doing this for many years.

[Marc St Louis]

I like to leave at least 50% of the ring intact.  Any more than that and I start to consider going to the next ring

[Danzn Bar]

50% of how thick of a ring?   and what poundage of bow is being made? Just wondering if that makes a differences 
DBar

[Pat B]

Many of the Native American bows found had quite a bit of ring violations and at least they survived. A lot may have to do with the wood used. I've made hickory backed bows with terrible ring violations and none broke. Also, most board bows have grain violations, some break, some don't.
 I try my best to get a good, clean back ring when I build a selfbow. If I do violate a ring I'll add super glue around the violation. After sanding I doubt much glue is left but it makes me feel better.

[PatM]

One molecule deep is a violation in my book.

[Danzn Bar]

One molecule deep is a violation in my book.

 
Really ?........ Pat M
DBar.........

[sleek]

Dubois, man its been awhile. Hope all is well.

To answer your question, the munite a single strand of fibre is cut on the back it is violated.  When making a back you always violate it. The trick is feathering. You feather to distribute stresses evenly. No matter what bow you build you feather it but typically we call it tapering. The further you taper something the further its stresses are distributed and as a result the pounds of stress per square inch of material is reduced.  You damage a ring, feather the damage out so it gradually tapers into the area around it. 25 times longer than deep is a good ratio to go by.

[okie64]

Good discussion here. Ideally I want a thick back ring with all the tool marks sanded out smooth. But I feel more comfortable shooting a bow with violated rings but with everything sanded down smooth and feathered in rather than a bow with a thick, unviolated ring with scraper marks on it.

[sleek]

Good discussion here. Ideally I want a thick back ring with all the tool marks sanded out smooth. But I feel more comfortable shooting a bow with violated rings but with everything sanded down smooth and feathered in rather than a bow with a thick, unviolated ring with scraper marks on it.

And for good reason.