Do I have this Right?

[Comancheria]

Many, if not most photos and drawings I see of Amerindian bows--especially the horse bows of the Plains tribes, APPEAR to have bendy handles of the same width and thickness of most of the rest of the bow--or at least the same as the near-handle portion.  Is it correct to say that such a bow has no fades?

Russ

[PatM]

 A bit too much of a generalization. They may not be "Buchanan dip" style fades but a bendy handle bow can still have what may be considered fades, it's just distributed over a longer area and less defined.
 People could easily argue this like set and string follow and it matters about the same amount.
 All that matters is how the bow functions, not what you call it and its parts.

[Pat B]

Yes but there is still an area of a bow that many consider the fade area; just past the handle on each limb. Actually the fades on a bow is a relatively new phenomenon in archery history. A man named Buchanan, I think, developed or at least popularized the bow style where a rigid handle "fades" into the working limbs. 

[huisme]

These handles all bend.

These two have long also-bendy fades



These two have no-taper, same-as-limb-width handles.



As long as you make the wood work proportionally to its width at any given point it should work out fine and shoot smooth as butter

[JackCrafty]

Not all plains bows were made the same way.  Some have thicker handles than others.  The ones with thicker handles may have some narrowing of the center when looking at the back (or belly) and these do have "fades" as we understand them.  Others have a more gradual taper in width an thickness so that the fades are not noticeable but they are there.  I've only seen a few Plains Amerindian bows without fades and these look like ceremonial bows or bows that bend too much in the handle.

[Comancheria]

Thanks, Gentlemen, and Patrick Blank, I realize that some Indian bows even have what looks like no bend at all in thick handles.  I was sure it was out there somewhere, but so far, I had seen no discussion of whether or how to build transition into those that are truly flat looking with equal width through the handle.

[Chief RID]

That is exactly what I would like to build with my sassafras. I will start a new thread. Thanks Comancheria!

[Comancheria]

Chief, (and anyone else):

Personally, as long as the moderators are OK with it, I NEVER mind someone taking "my" threads off in another direction.  After all, he who lives by the sword...😊

If you start a new thread, I will follow it closely!

Best regards,

Russ

[bradsmith2010]

i think some have very little fades,,

[Chief RID]

That is a great bow huisme and a great example of the short flat bow. I was trying to remember where I had seen dimensions for the American longbow and of coarse it was the Appendix of The Witchery of Archery, once again. I will try to go by Maurice's instructions if I can. Should be fun since he thought sassafras was a good bow wood. I assume it is a not so stacked longbow as Jay Massey described in the Bowyer's Craft. He has a cross section drawing in there.

[wizardgoat]

A few on my bendy handle bows I still had fades. They are not as noticeable.
On yew, my handles are an inch or so wide, 3" long fades to about 1 1/4" at the widest.
I still treat the fades as fades, and only bring the handle in the mix later on.
even on full bend through the handle bows, the handle is still the thickest. If its not it'll bend too much and shoot poorly

[PatM]

It all comes down to depth of handle and width of limb out of the handle that exaggerates the fade into a" dip" and a "flare".

[PEARL DRUMS]

Keep in mind wood is approx. 8x stronger in depth over width, meaning it takes very, very little wood to stiffen an area right up and create a "fade" on a working grip.

[Chadwick]

I call the widening portions 'hips and chest'

[DC]

OHHH! Now I understand!  I just needed the right description.