Author Topic: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?  (Read 78518 times)

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Offline Del the cat

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #150 on: February 15, 2015, 01:12:31 pm »
I vote against metric.
Bows have always been measured in pounds.
I personally despair at the way other European countries (read French) always seem to appropriate our sports and then create bureaucratic dictatorial governing bodies that ignore the country that invented the sport (OK I'm thinking soccer here... so it prob' doesn't interest you guys in the slightest ::))... 
I mean...even  FITA stands for some bonkers French name...  >:(
Del (click... Xenophobia mode OFF)
Health warning, these posts may contain traces of nut.

Offline Badger

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #151 on: February 15, 2015, 01:50:59 pm »
  Glad to hear that Dell, if everyone is used to that we might as well stick with pounds.

Offline Dan Perry

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #152 on: February 15, 2015, 03:23:36 pm »
Steve, that is Charley Johnson's arena. Charley Speaks that language. 

If you can get in touch with him, Don Burge, in Price Utah, could help as well.

Offline Badger

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #153 on: February 15, 2015, 04:04:40 pm »
  Thanks Dan

Offline Lukasz Nawalny

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #154 on: February 16, 2015, 03:53:51 am »
We make in april in Poland flight tournament. In this year we have participants limit 40. In this moment list is full. There is flight boom in Europe. I want make big flight festival in next year with yours oficial rules. I worry measurmed methods. Steel tape is fast and simple. I dont know how looks yours method, it will be good with for example 100 archers 5 rounds ?. I worry about organisation problems.

Offline Badger

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #155 on: February 16, 2015, 05:59:13 am »
   Steel tape is what we have agreed on here as well. Will your venue be primitive only? 100 archers shooting 5 rounds each would be challenging. Making good use of volunteers and training enough officials to officiate such a match could make it very doable.

Offline Lukasz Nawalny

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #156 on: February 16, 2015, 10:55:55 am »
Not only primitive, modern asiatic and modern flatbows too but no recurve, modern flightbows etc, only traditional bows

Offline Badger

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #157 on: February 16, 2015, 11:04:52 am »
  Do you have any specific rules for classes or does everyone just shoot against one another?

Offline Badger

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #158 on: February 16, 2015, 11:20:53 am »
    I think it is really important to do our best to get this traditional aspect right. In the current organization most all recurve and longbow classes shoot the very light flight arrows. In my view this makes little sense as a successful world record holder would have an incentive to modify his design to more closely resemble a regular flight bow. It is like taking a 747 passenger jet and having contests to see how it could operate as a fighter jet.
I think it was poorly thought out at the start but still makes for good sport inspite of this.

    Regular flight bows have it right, they are doing as they are intended. Using every trick in the book to get more yardage. Tradtional flight might do well to operate on the fringes of how they were intended to operate for the sake of more impressive distances. I was really hoping for more input here as I am struggling a bit with the traditional aspect. Also it occured to me that sister clubs shooting modern bows also might invite us or we invite them to increase participation. Very important for us to get this right. If we do get it right it will be around for many years to come and serve as an important and well recieved aspect of archery.

Offline Buckeye Guy

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #159 on: February 16, 2015, 12:59:11 pm »
Steve
I think that I hear your pain of getting this right , but not sure how you can gather enough folks together that understand all that is going on to get you the answers
there just are not many of us Primitives that have experienced flight archery enough to have decent questions let alone answers
I know I have not
I do however see what you are wanting to accomplish and have confidence you will get this going in a just the right way so that the rest of us can join in and have fun doing it!!

so all my responses are aimed at trying to spark thought for you not as thinking that I know much just as trying to help you

Can you set a minimum arrow weight for each draw weight to simplify things rather than a grains per pound?

Can we shoot against each other for the friendly competition aspect and only measure the few truly long shots  to check for records ?

Keep up the good work







Guy Dasher
The Marshall Primitive Archery Rendezvous
Primitive Archery Society
Having  fun
To God be the glory !

Offline Badger

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #160 on: February 16, 2015, 01:17:08 pm »
Buckeye, your thinking is very similar to mine. Measuring only pertinent arrows would be a huge help in cutting time. Because of the huge difference in distance attained by changing arrow weights We would have to assure somehow they were playing on a level playing field. One way to do this is as you suggested use a minimum arrow weight per weight class. This would leave the burden on the archer to make sure his bow came very close to the weight class he would like to enter. This is how we do it now. On the other hand if you wanted to encourage archers to bring thier favorite bows and not have to alter the weight we would be forced to use a grains per pound method.

  The regular flight will be no problem, very few restrictions. Any of the trad bows could also shoot regular flight if they chose just as we presently do. We can use complicated methods for comming up with rules as long as they are simple by the time they reach the actual flight shoots.

   Something I thought about for the trad flight is to eliminate weight classes alltogether. Only measure arrows that met a minimum distance goal and then after the fact weigh the arrow and the bow. If the arrow weight did not conform to the minimum required weight the shot would be disregarded. This would leave the burden on the archer to prepare for the flight shoot ahead of time matching his arrows to his bow. Not too much to ask.

   Example might be that trad would be shot at 8 grains per pound, no arrows under 200 yards would be measured. After the arrows are picked up we verify that the arrow weight of his furthest did not go below 8 grains per pound and list his distance.

Offline Lukasz Nawalny

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #161 on: February 16, 2015, 02:21:36 pm »
We have in this year only weight classes: 35 50 70 and unlimited, synthetic string is allowed in primitive bows.

Offline Buckeye Guy

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #162 on: February 16, 2015, 02:25:26 pm »
sounds good , but i don't know how much time or effort we may burn up to measure grains and lbs and depends on more accurate set up rather than a go no go system

with today's tech available to us we can do most anything my mind is just stuck in the 60's

in the end I will be having fun what ever we come up with


We have in this year only weight classes: 35 50 70 and unlimited, synthetic string is allowed in primitive bows.

sounds like what Steve is thinking also
Guy Dasher
The Marshall Primitive Archery Rendezvous
Primitive Archery Society
Having  fun
To God be the glory !

Offline Badger

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #163 on: February 16, 2015, 02:32:20 pm »
We have in this year only weight classes: 35 50 70 and unlimited, synthetic string is allowed in primitive bows.


  You will be doing regular flite classes? No limts on arrow weigth etc?

Offline Badger

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #164 on: February 16, 2015, 02:39:02 pm »
sounds good , but i don't know how much time or effort we may burn up to measure grains and lbs and depends on more accurate set up rather than a go no go system

with today's tech available to us we can do most anything my mind is just stuck in the 60's

in the end I will be having fun what ever we come up with


We have in this year only weight classes: 35 50 70 and unlimited, synthetic string is allowed in primitive bows.

sounds like what Steve is thinking also

   I think grains per pound is simple but it may not be, longest arrow bow weighs in at 61#X8=488 grains minimum arrow weight. You could eliminate weight classes alltogether doing this if you wanted to or 50 and under 51 and over. Try to set a standard for measure that required at least a decent shot.