Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?

[redhawk55]

Thanks for your replies.
There are some things to do now. I would like to set up the site as soon as possible, tomorrow a first layout could be ready.

I would appreciate your ideas for a header image, I thought about this one: http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o248/Iliana_T/PaleoPlanet/Davids-Bow-All-smaller.jpg?

I would prefer to set up the site as a blog, forums are somehow out of fashion. I' ve very good experiences with wordpress.com- blogs. I guess wordpress to be the best blog- system, searching- engines love wordpress- blogs.
Blogs have the advantage of sites and articles. Sites could only be edited by an admin, so I would suggest sites as follows: ABOUT, RULES, HISTORY, GALLERY, LINKS and CONTACT
A wordpress.com blog is free, but a video-upgrade would be about 99$ a year. Maybe a connected youtube- flightbow- channel could be an alternative?

Articles could be posted by the members of the club: this would be the space for to post your flightbows and flight-arrows, your reports on a flightshot- tournaments................etc. This would be the space for discussions too.

If the club turns out to be a real burner with a lot of daily traffic, a wordpress.com- blog could be easily transferred into a selfhosted wordpress.org- blog. This will cost about 115$ a year.

I would like to set up the site and could do the ABOUT- site too, but I need help!

Who will fix the RULES, I guess the most delicous task.?

I would appreciate some articles and a lot of pics about the HISTORY of flightarchery. We need pics for the GALLERY, useful LINKS.....................etc.

We need some more admins, anyone out here? A little bit of blog- experience would be great.

Send articles and pics for the start to my pm.

About the classes:

I would prefer a very small number of classes(as I've posted it yet above) for to enforce the exchange and the competition between the designs and for to get by with few basic rules.

Michael

[Badger]

  Michael, I think you are on the right track! Lets give ourselves time schedules for completing various tasks with a target date of completion say by March 1st. I think you and I are in agreement on most issues but a few I would like to present to the organizing body for input and negotiation.

   I do prefer more classes to better represent the international community and the demogaphics of various age and social groups.
For example you may have some areas that are really only interested in the broadhead division, while others prefer the turkish style or English for instance. I like the existing rules governing flight for the most part with some notable exceptions.

   No later than tomorrow I will submit to the present organization a set of classes, rules and protocals that I would favor, others can do the same or start with my basic and modify from there.
An important consideration will be, how do we go about establishing a governing body to get this thing off the ground? I would suggest we send out invites. Those interested in becomming part of the process can nominate themselves and then we take a quick vote and get down to business.

    I would like to see the Primitive Archer community here remain a place to go for primitive flight shooters and we could submit some articles to PA magazine to help with out publicity. " Birth of an International Primitive Flight Organizattion"  We have some great writers on the sight here we could hopefully recruit to write some articles for our public relations.

[Badger]

  Something like this maybe to get the ball rolling, these are just suggestions.

World Archery Flight Federation

Divisions:
    Male
           Adult (16 and older)
           Youth
Female
          Adult (16 and older)
          Youth

Flight Classes  35#   50#   70#   unlimited
         Self bows 
         Laminated  wood bows
         Complex composite natural material bows
          English Long bows
          War bows 100#  120#  140# 160# unlimited
          Turkish and asiatic styles ( increments of 20# weight)

Broadhead classes  35# 50# 65# 80# 100#.
                                Straight bows (1” max reflex), reflexed long bows, contact recurves
        Self bows
        laminated wood bows


Flight Stations:

       An apporoved flight station should have a minimum of the following equipment

A registration table, registration forms, A complete book of rules, current records and classes. pencils, pens, paper, paint pens, marking pencils, metal money box,

Weight station, a sturdy bow rack for weighing, removable tape for marking bows, marking pencils, tape measure, yard stick, book of rules and classes, approved digital scales or calibrated free weights. Arrow capturing cage with tubes for arrow storage, A storage rack for weighed bows.

Flight Line

A wind sock for the flight line, several flags to mark off flight field, a 50' rope to establish shooting line, Metal stakes to secure shooting line rope, A work table, approved measuring equipment, two way radios,

Rules to qualify bows for classes
Rules for measuring
Rules for weighing
Rules for arrows
Rules for registering
Rules for shooting

         

[Badger]

    If we have anyone here who is knowledgeable about surveying they may want to give is a hand on establishing a measuring method that would be quick and accurate. I am thinking that a series of 100 yard tapes could be stetched out on a centerline of the flight field and then use a scope at a right angle to the center line to gather distances might be an inexpensive low tec method.

[redhawk55]

Couldn't do to much for the site, stuck into a real tough fight with a twisted rowan- stave.

 For to registrate the blog we need to agree on the name of the club/ federation. That means I can't begin with the setup if there's still no name.
The name can never be changed, we have definitely to agree as soon as possible!

i would prefer "INTERNATIONAL PRIMITIVE FLIGHTBOW CLUB".

Another suggestion is:  "PRIMITIVE FLIGHTBOW FEDERATION"

Make your choice right now!

Michael

[Badger]

  I like he sound of federation but not 100% sure I fully understand the meaning. As far as I know it would fit nicely.

[avcase]

There has been recent interest to expand the reach of the U.S. Primitive flight events so that they are also sanctioned under the World Archery umbrella.  I feel it would be very positive for the future of flight archery if we can get it done.  Such a change would make it possible to shoot Primitive Flight for official world records at our US National AND any one of the three annual flight shoots currently held in the UK.

Alan

[Badger]

      That would be great Allen. I think a world federation with a lot more local clubs in states and smaller countries would make the sport a lot more accessable to those who have some interest but have not totally committed.

      Something else I would like to see in the federation is when we publish the results of shoots and records, instead of just posting records have one sheet for each class and show the top 25 or so shots that have been made in that class. Just getting on the sheet and then moving up on the sheet could be motivational.

[Del the cat]

    If we have anyone here who is knowledgeable about surveying they may want to give is a hand on establishing a measuring method that would be quick and accurate. I am thinking that a series of 100 yard tapes could be stetched out on a centerline of the flight field and then use a scope at a right angle to the center line to gather distances might be an inexpensive low tec method.

I know it's against the current flight rules... but I'd favour direct measurement from arrow to shoot position. It avoids trying to work out if you are perpendicular to the centre line and allows quick direct reading with a laser range finder.
There is an argument that says it is actually a better measure of how far the arrow is going.
It would certainly be how I would do it if I was shooting on my own. It saves marking a centre line.
Del

[avcase]

I do like the existing primitive flight rules because they are pretty simple with few restrictions except materials used.  There is very little to restrict anyone from shooting their favorite design.  The best designs to achieve maximum cast will naturally float to the top.

One common suggestion to the current rules is that there are only 50-lb and Unlimited weight categories.  I imagine we will add an intermediate 65-lb or 70-lb weight if enough interest persists.  Last year, we started recording the actual draw weights of some of the bows used.  This year, I'd like to record actual draw weight of all bows that are weighed.  If actual draw weight is recorded, then we would have the option to consider future record status for bows that may have fallen outside the 50-lb cut-off.

Steve,
I have been accumulating prior records on one database so we can see the full history for any given type of equipment. I feel it makes the sport more interesting. It is a good suggestion. It certainly takes time to research the past records, but moving forward (starting in 2009), every measured shot has been permanently recorded in one database. Therefore, instead of comin away disappointed at not breaking THE record, a flight shooter can have the satisfaction of knowing that they may have just shot one of the top five distances ever recorded for a 50-lb self bow, for example.  Other possibilities could be recognition of top distance over the last 10 years, or 50 years, etc.

Del,
Besides tradition, a reason we measure distances perpendicular to a shooting line is that it allows more than one archer to shoot at a time, and helps limit the spread of arrows in the field. I kind of like this incentive for some level of accuracy. We use a Total Station theodolite for measuring the distances. It measures perpendicular distance from the shoot line without chance of error. The Total Station also reports how far off perpendicular the arrow landed (relative to the center of the shooting line).

Alan

[redhawk55]

For communication- reasons I would like to connect a twitter- account to the site.

Instead of embedding videos into the site I would prefer to set up a youtube- primitive flightbow- channel. I hope we'll end up with a lot of interesting videos.

Both, the twitter- account and the youtube- channel will help to spread the site heavily.

At the ABOUT- page I would like to post some personal statements why someone does flight- shooting or is  making flightbows.

Still looking for a header- image, any idea? Be aware of copyright- issues.

Michael

[Del the cat]

Del,
Besides tradition, a reason we measure distances perpendicular to a shooting line is that it allows more than one archer to shoot at a time, and helps limit the spread of arrows in the field. I kind of like this incentive for some level of accuracy. We use a Total Station theodolite for measuring the distances. It measures perpendicular distance from the shoot line without chance of error. The Total Station also reports how far off perpendicular the arrow landed (relative to the center of the shooting line).

Alan

Yeah, but that's sort of my point my point...
I was hoping this web based federation was a solution for those of us who don't have access to formal flight shoots or total station theodolites and are having to resort to shooting on our own or with a few mates in a field.
I feel maybe two grades of recording is appropriate.
1. The formal conventional record status shoot with the total station a measured out centreline etc.
2. The informal recording for those of us without access to wide open spaces and the full measuring equipment etc.
Of course with a bit of pacing out and geometry we can make a rough correction for off line shots if we have some sort of sight line marker.
The danger as I see it is that the federation becomes just another set organised fight shoots that I don't have access to
Del

[Badger]

  Del, I think we have a similar vision. By using a pre measured centerline we could simply sight off the centerline to the arrows and get the same reading as the total station with not quite the same level of accuracy. I think using a sight mounted at a right angle to the center line could get us to within one yard. We only measure the longest arrow shot by each archer in each round. If an archer was not at a respectable distance he would likely choose not to bother with a measure beyond just eyeballing it and not recording anything. This could save considerable time also.

   Allen, I think that small active flight clubs could play an important roll in helping to build the current world championship flight organization. Just like any sport. They need to be able to particapate frequently to maintain interest.

[avcase]

Del,
I agree. Flight shooting doesn't need a theodolite in order to be enjoyable or successful. If it is just a few people having fun, then a tape and open field is more than enough.

Some of the most fun I have had flight shooting was at a primitive gathering that had a large field within walking distance of our camp. The rules for bows were simple. There was a category for simple natural materials bows, and a category for everything else (including those shooting carbon bows and arrows). There were no divisions for draw weights, or men Vs. women. Kids were informally recognized as well as those who were shooting their first self made bow. It was pure fun without any of the hassle. Flags marked the farthest shots and these were roughly measured later with a tape. There were 50 or more participating. Funny thing is that the overall farthest arrow was not shot by the strongest man using a heavy draw weight modern synthetic bow.  The farthest distance was shot by a teen age girl with a 30-ish pound Ipe self bow, using linen string and primitive arrows.

On the other hand, if we want to record official distances for record status, then there is no way around having a uniform set of rules and adherence to consistent methods of measurement.

Alan

[Badger]

     Allen, thats how we did it when we were kids. We never measured anything, just who shot the furthest. I have had a resentment to glass bows ever since, all the rich kids showed up with the modern recurves and beat the pants off my little lemonwood bow.


   Redhawk, I think a basic flight station could be put together for about $200.00. We could do a video showing the procedure by actually filming a flight shoot. I would like to think of our organization as fertile ground for developing the sport and making it user friendy enough for anyone to jump right in. The more serious players may want to graduate up to the existing organizations. I am in favor of giving the organization enough credibiity and integrity that posted results were respected.