Osage stave length help

[rbpwrd240]

Hi gang,

First time poster long time lurker.  While I was fishing on a friends land I found a huge osage orange tree, during processing the seeds I found out the tree makes a great bow.  Something I have wanted to try for some time. My buddies family will let me harvest a branch but they dont want the tree cut down.  My questions are.

Iv heard a safe stave length of about 68" but I have also heard 2.3 x your draw.  If I put a yard stick in my chest and I reach out and touch my fingers together they touch at 23".  So doubling that is 46 plus 8" for the handle equals a stave length of 54".  I have also heard a good length is about 60" or an average draw of 30"?


Can someone please help explain this to me?


Also I see that everyone wants staves from the trunk.  Will it be okay to find a straight branch or a branch with a slight bend in it that has a diameter of about 4" for my stave?

Thanks in advance for all the help!!!

[SLIMBOB]

Lots to consider with that question.  How well will the bow be made?  Is your draw really 30 inches?  Static handle or bendy handle?  Crowned stave or flat?  Knots or super clean?  All things being equal, and without knowing any of that,  64 to 68 inches should get you there in my opinion.

Limbs are fine for bows.

[bubby]

60" long for a 30" sure ain't average for most of the guys on this site I'll promise you that, your draw is closer to 23" it sounds like, 64" is a good place to start, I'd go bendy but you could easily do a stiff handled bow at that length, better to go a little longer on the first few, then as you improve you can go shorter

[PEARL DRUMS]

Draw length times two plus 10" is a good rule to start with. How tall are you?

[rbpwrd240]

Well to anwser a few of those questions.

I am an above average craftsman. 
I'm 5'8"
This is my first self bow.  I used to practice with an indian style long bow when I was a kid so I am familiar with what it "should" look and feel like but otherwise have nothing to go on.

I dont have a 30" draw. Im not sure exactly what my draw is.  I heard two different ways to measure it. 

One said your draw was 5" added to your draw by the yard stick method, mine being 23" it means my draw is around 28".

Another said to be safe to make sure the bow wont break you should just double 30" which is an average length.  Making your stave 60".

I was thinking it would be a bendy handle as I want to do a single piece bow. Is this correct? 

My goal is to hunt a deer with a self made bow and arrow.  Id like a slightly shorter bow but I dont want to give up strength and safty.  I would hate to put in all this work just to brake the bow down the road.

Thanks for the help!!!

[bradsmith2010]

good advice is seldom taken,, make it 66 inches ,,, thats a nice middle of the road,,when you become more experienced make it any length you want

[rbpwrd240]

If I have a 23" Draw doubled thats 46" and after adding 8" for the handle for a simple D bow and I get 54" Why are all the suggestions to go over 64"? 

Can someone explain this to me? 

I am here for advice.  Trouble is figuring out the best advice for you to follow in your situation.  Again I feel I am an above average craftsman.  I feel confident in my abilitys.  I just want to know what the safe range is for a competant person to expect to get a 45lb plus pull so I can hunt with the bow.

I figured I would get a simple equation anwser such as the double the draw and add 8" idea.  The other one I have heard is as tall as you are which for me at 5'8" would be 68". Thats quite a difference.

I was going to build a flat backed 1.75" wide 23" long armes   4" handle 1.25" wide 1.25" deep with 2" of tapper on each side of the handle then tappered from 2" wide to 1/2" wide at the last 15" of the arms. The blank would start at 1/2" deep and the hanlde would be 1.5" deep but tillering would enevitable finalize the depth of the arms.  Yourbaisc first self bow.  Totalling 54". Is this too short becouse of the dangers of it breaking? 

If I go 60" It would be 26" arms.

If I go 64" It would be 28" arms.

If I go to 66" it would be 29" arms.

If I go to 68" it would be 30" arms.

What is the benefit of using these longer lengths other then bow strength.  I am affraid it will loose lb in the pull and be tough to amnouver in the texas brushy hill country I plan to hunt in.  I dont want to be in a stand.  I want to be on the ground stalking the animal.

Thanks again for the help.

[bradsmith2010]

it does not work exactly like that,, the longer bow will be more forgiving as you learn, if you make a mistake it will more than likely still make a bow,,,I could write a chapter on it,, the longer bow will shoot great if tillered right,, there is not an exact length for any draw,,,it depends on the tiller design etc,,,,, as they go shorter, it takes more skill with very little gained in performance,, your figures you are quoting are not what most go by anyway,, 64 for 26,,, 65 for 27,,, 66 for 28 ,,, is a good staring point,, as you gain experience you can go shorter,,, if you make the longer bow and miss the weight,,, the longer bow can be cut shorter and tillered so you hit your weight etc etc etc,,,also you have nothing to loose by making the longer bow,, if you do want to shoot the bow at a longer draw guess what ,, the longer bow will accommodate ,, the shorter bows are more limited in how far they can be drawn etc, etc etc etc etc,,

[SLIMBOB]

Pearls advice was concise. Double your draw length and add 10 inches. Not knowing your draw length renders that equation unusable. Your draw length was 30 inches, then 28, now 23. That range is from a very long draw to a very short one and without knowing that, just guesses. Your draw is somewhere in the middle my guess. Let's guess 28. 28•2=56+10=66. You can modify those numbers once you know your draw length.

[rbpwrd240]

I havent used different draw rates just different ways to get your draw. 

Im still unsure what my draw is as no one has anwsered that question.

I have heard of several ways to figure out your draw. 

If I put my arms out in front of me and touch my index fingers together they hit at 23".  This was in the very first post.

By the 2.3 times your draw then the length would be  53".

The 30" draw rate was used on a build I looked at as a safe mark as they said most would be safe in this range.

Then I have heard of double your draw and add 8 inches for a handle.  so my 23" would be 46 plus a 8" handle would be 54"

As pearl said.  My draw would be 23" doubled which is 46 plus 10 would be 56".Far short of what others are mentioning.

So what is the proper draw length and what is the proper equation?

Thanks all.

[TimBo]

The problem is that until you shoot a bit and develop a consistent form, there is no good way to predict your draw length.  I am six feet tall and when I use the arms in front method, it tells me 28.  If I am shooting a recurve target-style, I might have 28, but since I have found a looser stance to be more comfortable and accurate for longbow and selfbow, my draw is more like 26 on a good day...probably more like 25.5, but that also depends on the font to back depth of the bow.  26 seems like a pretty typical draw length on this site. 

66 inches is not a bad length of bow to carry through the woods.  My current main hunting bow is 64" nock to nock, and I get hung up a lot more than it does.  I would suggest cutting as close to 72" as possible, seal the ends immediately, split it in half, and debark and remove the sapwood (unless it is a 2" branch, in which case you may need the sapwood, but I believe you said 4").  You will need to let it dry for a good while, during which time you can figure out things like bendy vs. rigid handle, bow length, etc.  Picking a design is fun, and you will have time to research a bit. 

If you are drawn to the craftsmanship of the bowmaking process and really want a shorter bow, you might enjoy Dean Torges' book Hunting the Osage Bow, which will answer most of your questions before you even know enough to have them!

[bubby]

I know you say you are a good craftsman, but you can be a master cabinet maker and not be able to build a shootable bow, there's a lot to building a good dependable bow, sounds to me like you want a short bow and aren't getting the answer you want so here ya go, if ya want a 52" bow, build a 52" bow, y'all are the one building it, cut it 6' long and split it then when seasoned cut one 52" and the other 64" and build both, my guess is you will shoot the longer bow better and have a better chance of it surviving as well

[rbpwrd240]

Thank all,

By craftsman I mean I am good with my hands.  I fabricate with an assortment of materials.  I have been working with my hands for about 15 years.  I dont want to sound full of my self but resonable principles of physics and construction are easy for me to understand and replicate.  What most would consider difficult I have usually been able to master in a more then resonable amount of time.  I dont expect to have a perfect bow out of the gate but I would be really suprised if I failed completly.

I am not stuck on a short bow I just wanted someone to explain why I needed the longer length. I guess if anything I wanted a bow sized for me.  Not the general person. If Im going to invest this amount of time and energy I want to shoot for the best possible outcome that I can have.

Sounds like the reason for a longer bow is so you can have a little wiggle room for errors, mistakes and problems with the wood grain and splitting not so much for the long term durability of the bow.

I am here for imformation.  If I just wanted to take someones word for it I could have just gone off of any one of the many write ups and started with a 68" hunk of wood.  However I wanted to know why people start with long bows.  What the principals were and what equations others were using and of course why.

If you cant tell I am a bit of a knowledge hound.  I have always been the guy that ask's why.  Not becouse I dont believe you or becouse I think you dont know but becouse I have found that getting to the root of the issue will always help you better understand the principals wether they be physical or mathmatical.

[rbpwrd240]

I would suggest cutting as close to 72" as possible, seal the ends immediately, split it in half, and debark and remove the sapwood (unless it is a 2" branch, in which case you may need the sapwood, but I believe you said 4").  You will need to let it dry for a good while, during which time you can figure out things like bendy vs. rigid handle, bow length, etc.  Picking a design is fun, and you will have time to research a bit. 

If you are drawn to the craftsmanship of the bowmaking process and really want a shorter bow, you might enjoy Dean Torges' book Hunting the Osage Bow, which will answer most of your questions before you even know enough to have them!

I was under the impression that a 4" diameter branch was the smallest you could use.  I also was under the impression that for Osage you had to remove the sap wood??

I was planning on roughing out the bow while the wood was greeen and then letting the blank dry.  I am hoping to shorten the curing process.

[rbpwrd240]

your figures you are quoting are not what most go by anyway,, 64 for 26,,, 65 for 27,,, 66 for 28 ,,, is a good staring point,, as you gain experience you can go shorter,,, if you make the longer bow and miss the weight,,, the longer bow can be cut shorter and tillered so you hit your weight etc etc etc,,,also you have nothing to loose by making the longer bow,, if you do want to shoot the bow at a longer draw guess what ,, the longer bow will accommodate ,, the shorter bows are more limited in how far they can be drawn etc, etc etc etc etc,,

Great info!!!

I was wondering how those measurments lay out on the bow?  With the bow designed I mentioned earlier only the last 15" of the arms  are tappered and the entire handle is 8 inches including taper on both ends.  If I remove the handle and tapper how are my figures off? 

The 64" bow would have 8 inches of handle making it 56" divide that in half and your left with 28" for the arms. 

The numbers you mentioned must be of a different (probably superior) design could you explain the layout for this bow?