First sinew job, on first bow, Osage Updated tip reshaped?

[lebhuntfish]

Thanks guys, I measured my tips and they are right at a half an inch now. Except the string knock area where they are a little thicker. The one pic where you see the tip is one from quite a while ago, I have done a lot of reduction since then. Even thinner than the pic of me bending the reflex. I will try to get some better pics and see what you think. Thanks, adb!

[Wiley]

Very ambitious first bow. From what I understand the longer you wait for it to cure before continuing tillering the better off you will be. When you decided on sinew you decided on an exercise in patience. About time to start your 2nd and 3rd bows while that one is curing out somewhere warm and dry. You will likely have at least a couple bows finished before you are done with this one.

I would attempt tillering a couple non sinew backed recurves to have more confidence on tillering this bow that you will have put so much time into after it's cured out. It would be hard putting all that time into it and then messing something up. Practicing on a couple other bows of similar profile will reduce the chances of that happening.

[lebhuntfish]

Thanks Wiley, that's really good advice, I will for sure take your advice. I plan on now letting it cure about 2 month's.  I actually started on a molgabet board bow today. It was next on my list, along with an American flat bow.

Adb, I took another pic of the tips with my finger just under the static section for comparison. Let me know what you think about it with a better view. Still to thick?
 

[PatM]

 It's ambitious but not ridiculously so.  If the tips were really sharp statics it would be more challenging. Just make sure you leave the actual bent portion thick and then  work your outer limb fade a bit closer to the curve. You can narrow the tips, make them come to a tapered edge and also taper them on the belly side from thick at the curve to a more shallow section towards the tip.

[adb]

Yup... PatM pretty much summed it up. That's what I'd do.

[PatM]

I should add that if you are going to  work the outer limb  fade the sinew should have been applied out to the base of the curve in a tapered out thickness.  It appears to stop before there.  Wrapping the end of the sinew will limit your ability to tiller the outer limb if you do that first.
 I am not sure how well the sinew will hold if you start bending the bow before wrapping that area.

[lebhuntfish]

Pat m, I think I understand what you are saying. I should extend the length of the working part of the limb some and thin the belly  of the static reflex section from the end of the bend to the tips leaving the bent area thicker?  I tied the sinew at the end of the fade where the thicker part of the static tip starts. Could I add sinew to the static section towards the bend now that it has been drying over night? 

This is what I am basing my efforts on but have made a few changes already, for one it is 68" n2n.
 http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,32619.0.html

[lebhuntfish]

Here is a few more pics of the reflex and the tips and fades.
 
 
 
 
 

[PatM]

That is what I meant. Those pics do make it look like the sinew goes out a bit further. I only meant about another inch and a half in any case. You could easily add a bit out there if the glue will stick to itself well enough. Most people say it does.
 The fine tuning of the tips can take place after you get it tillered to your liking. That will enhance the feel of the bow during the shot.  Don't worry about it until then.

[lebhuntfish]

Ok, thanks PatM, you have been a big help. I was concerned it was something that I needed to do before I worked on the tiller any more. Thought it would effect it. To put what your saying in more terms like I would. Its like having a nice flexible whip with a club on the end of it. The bow will not only be trying to through the arrow but the heavy tips as well.  I could see where you would get be sluggish and have some hand shock. Thank you very much. I have defiantly learned something by starting this post.

[PAHunter]

Yep, Mike's the man; love his videos!  It's looking great to me so far!  Can't wait to see how it progresses!  I've only done one sinew backing and also followed Mike's instruction.  The biggest thing I learned is probably that sinew takes way longer to dry than I thought.  1 month in it gained a few pounds, 6 months later it gained 9 more! 

[lebhuntfish]

Thanks PA, I will keep you all updated once this dang sinew cures!

[DarkSoul]

Hm, this is an interesting thread. Let me first say that I've never worked with sinew myself. Although I've been reading about it, I've never done a sinew backed bow myself. So please take my advice with a grain of salt.

So let me get this straight. You are making a sinew backed osage recurve. At 68" in length. And the sinew is glued with TiteBond 2? I've got some reservations about that. An artificial glue such as titebond will not create the typical benefits that would get when you use hide glue. Your glue doesn't work with the sinew, but rather against it, so to speak. Hide glue consists of mainly the same proteins as sinew itself, and will form a matrix with the sinew. Titebond will basically form a matrix by itself, in which the sinew is embedded. This means that your bow ill not pull into reflex as the glue dries. Furthermore, it also seems that you used a LOT of glue. And glue is heavy. So you basically added a lot of weight to the back of the bow. This weight in principle slows down the bow, unless you gain performance by the sinew working hard. You can make this sinew work hard by making a short  bow, so the sinew stretches a lot. But since your bow is rather long, this effect is negligible.
So I see two major draw backs for the performance of the bow. First, your bow is too long to benefit from a sinew backing in general. For a 28" draw (but you didn't specify your intended draw weight or - length), a sinew backed bow should be under 64" preferably. Second, you are limiting the efficiency of the sinew by not using the best glue. Titebond may work, but it is just far from optimal.

It's a really impressive 'first bow' that you are making; don't get me wrong. So far you're doing really well and the woodwork by itself would even impress me if this were your fifth bow. I just feel that this bow would be better off without sinew entirely. It probably shoots faster, better and more pleasantly without it. Although the sinew might be a huge experience for you and I'm sure you gained a lot of knowledge from applying the sinew. But I just think that the bow would be better off without sinew.

[PEARL DRUMS]

"Right" or "wrong", your getting your hands dirty and gaining actual, real-life experience you can share later.

Ive sinewed a fair batch of bows. Ive used TB3 a few times and hide glue a lot more. None of my bows pull any reflex no matter what I used. I induce reflex while the sinew is green by reverse bracing. My only gripe about TB3, you get no work time and its tough to get a good matrix from tip to tip. One thing Im sure you've read plenty is that sinew/hide glue bows gain and lose weight with substantial humidity changes. You wont find that same movement with TB3 bows. They stay pretty consistent. Are you getting the full benefit with TB3? Im not going to guess, that's what most of what we do is......a guess or an assumption.

[lebhuntfish]

DarkSoul, I think you make an awfully good point. Your probably right about the different glues, and that tightbond has its place and that hide glue would be the optimal thing to use. I do plan on making another bow with hide glue some day. I haven't had any dealings with hide glue and I have never even  made it except with Knox gelatin. And my experience wasn't that great with the test I done. I almost even went to buy TIGHTBOND LIQUID HIDE GLUE but it seemed to have problems cracking, from all I read about it.

That being said, I plan on using this bow in all types of weather conditions. Even up to the time I started the sinew up I was contemplating using some form of hide glue. The season for the tightbond  was solely for its weather proofing ability.

You was saying that the bow was a little long for the use of sinew. Or something to that effect. I only have 15" of working limb area on each side. Which that makes the total area that is bending only 30".

The stats for my bow that I'm shooting for (no pun intended)
68" n2n
60lbs at 28" of course that might change after I get someone to help me measure my draw length.

Thank you very much for your reply, it really made me think about what you were saying. I appreciate your honesty.  And thank you for your compliment, I have always been good with my hands  and was always able to master just about any tools you put in my hand. I want you to know that I don't have another bow to look at in person for comparison I am doing all of this by pictures and videos I have seen on line. I have shot a re curve many times, but haven't owned one in 15+ years.