Boards vs staves ???

[sweeney3]

Naw.  Boards are still wood.  I sure wouldn't want to be limited to only boards, but I like to do a couple board bows once in a while.  When someone wants to get started for cheap or free I have no trouble building them a D style board donation.  They certainly have a place in the community.  Let's not be too harsh against the use of boards.  It actually took me longer to figure out how to get a bow from a board than from a stave, but that is probably because I wasn't paying good attention to the selection and design criteria.

That said, staves make very pretty bows.

[skarhand]

I personally can't stand stave bows. I used to be an architect, so I like good clean lines, straight, and no character.

It seems like I came to this thread late in the game, lol. I have had this moldering in the back of my mind for a while. While I wouldn't go so far as to say I can't stand stave bows, as I have never made one, I am not a huge fan of bows heavy on the character. It is almost a joke between my wife and I about how much I don't like non-symmetry. I am an Engineer and I like things straight and square and orderly, lol. I would have to say in the debate over stave vs board, it is merely a personal preference. Several guys have made great cases for both types. If you like character, a stave is a must...very hard to get a character bow from a board. If you like smooth clean symmetrical bows, teasing one out of a stave is much more difficult. (not impossible...I have seen some amazing ones on here)

All that being said, I really hope that sometime I will be able to get my hands on a stave or two and try a bow that way. Crossing my fingers that I can get some ash staves come spring...but then I have to dry them so I am a long way out from working a stave, lol.

[Pappy]

Skarhand it is pretty easy to get a clean straight [cookie cutter] bow from a stave if you use pipe straight staves such as most ash I have used and also Hickory.You just lay them out just like you would a board.
  Pappy

[Pat B]

This thread wasn't meant to trash any kind of bows, board or stave. Build what you want and enjoy the journey. I understand folks with engineering minds(well, not really  ) are preprogramed to straight, flat and uniform materials so being able to convert that mindset to wood bows is an accomplishment for sure. You still have to understand the basic principles of wood bow building and the tension and compression stresses and the wood's structural values to be able to successfully build an all wood bow. It really isn't cookie cutter archery.
 My mind doesn't work like that. I love the challenge of taking a tree stave and whatever it has to offer and finding the bow inside. Generally for me at least, the stave will tell me what it wants to be and if I pay attention the stave will  guide me to successful (most of the time) results.
 Over the last 20 years or so both tree stave and board stave bows have been used to get us to where we are today.   Tim Baker experimented with about any type of wood you can think of.  Many if not all were from boards. If it weren't for him, Paul Comstock, Steve Gardner(Badger), Marc St Louis and many others we'd still be debating whether we could use whitewoods or boards at all. Before then most bows were made from osage, yew and lemonwood. FYI, most lemonwood bows were made from boards because that is what was available.

[Wooden Spring]

I personally can't stand stave bows. I used to be an architect, so I like good clean lines, straight, and no character.

It seems like I came to this thread late in the game, lol. I have had this moldering in the back of my mind for a while. While I wouldn't go so far as to say I can't stand stave bows, as I have never made one, I am not a huge fan of bows heavy on the character. It is almost a joke between my wife and I about how much I don't like non-symmetry. I am an Engineer and I like things straight and square and orderly, lol. I would have to say in the debate over stave vs board, it is merely a personal preference. Several guys have made great cases for both types. If you like character, a stave is a must...very hard to get a character bow from a board. If you like smooth clean symmetrical bows, teasing one out of a stave is much more difficult. (not impossible...I have seen some amazing ones on here)

All that being said, I really hope that sometime I will be able to get my hands on a stave or two and try a bow that way. Crossing my fingers that I can get some ash staves come spring...but then I have to dry them so I am a long way out from working a stave, lol.

I LOVE staves! I can make GREAT boards out of them!   

[Pappy]

Didn't mean to offend on the cookie cutter comment, just meant they could be laid out with a straight edge same as a board,pretty cut and dry as far as the lay out.
The rest is like building any other bow,even bend and spread the stress.   
  Pappy

[skarhand]

Absolutely no offence taken, lol. As I have heard others say here before, I have no problem with other people being wrong.

[JackCrafty]

Anything or any type of wood is fair game in my book.  I've made bows from some crazy stuff.  I prefer staves but only because I can't seem to get clean boards with closed grain.  When I went to NH recently for a visit, I took a stroll around a couple of the Depot stores and they had dozens of beautiful maple boards just sitting out in the open!  What?!  People haven't come in here and cleared the shelves of this treasure??!!  I wanted to move back! 

[paoliguy]

I think Patrick makes a good point. I used to travel a lot for my job, it was surprising how different the wood selection and quality changes from place to place. I personally am a big fan of boards even though I find the character laden stave bows lots of you guys make totally amazing. I guess I'm spoiled I have an Amish saw mill about 5 miles from the house so good boards or staves are not so hard to come by. Either way, I respect the efforts of any bowyer regardless of what he started whittlin' on.

[George Tsoukalas]

Pat B, ok good post. We are making good progress here.

We've finally ascertained that kiln dried boards make bows. We've also agreed that whitewoods make good bows.

But some are still reluctant to say that a whitewood can make an excellent shooting character bow that will shoot just as well or better than any osage or yew bow.



Yes?

Jawge

[sweeney3]

ERC!  ERC!  ERC!...

And boards...

[bubby]

now Jawge is just stirring the pot

[Pat B]

George, I think Badger rectified that with his "Mass Theory" chapter in TBBIV. Any wood will make a good bow if it is designed for the characteristic of the wood. It seems to me that quite a few folks don't consider the wood's characteristic before they decide on the bow they want to make. They seem to have a preconceived idea of what they want to make and grab a piece of wood and jump right in. I'm just the opposite in most cases. I let the wood tell me what it wants to be.
 Paul Comstock in his The Bent Stick is what got me thinking more about whitewoods as did Tim Bakers chapter in TBBI on "Design and Performance" and later in his revised chapter on Design and Performance in TBBIV.
 I still don't understand why some folks thought kiln drying wood would make it unusable for bows. We heat treat wood and heat bend wood and store some bows in a hot ox to keep them dry. Why would a wood kiln be different.

[George Tsoukalas]

Old ways die hard, Pat.
Back in the 1800's and early 1900's English archery was popular in the US. Designing a hickory bow like a yew bow didn't always worked.
Subsequently, Native American style bows became popular..well that's a story for a another time.
I always let the stave, not just the wood, determine the design.
Some like to fit the design to the stave but wood and stave may not be right for it.
Jawge

[vinemaplebows]

I believe a board bow will out shoot a stave bow made from the exact tree. If we had sister staves one decrowned given the same design, the decrowned stave will out shoot the natural stave. This is my opinion.

VMB