Calif does it again

[Traxx]

Hey Bub if you wanna jump ship on Cali you can come live in the unemployment wasteland next door! (Nevada) We've got some great scenery if you can get around how stupid a good number of the people here are.

Yeah,
and the majority of them are Prunie transplants.

[JW_Halverson]

While the anti-hunters are definitely looking to ban any ammunition, including potatoes and potato guns, there is valid science behind getting the lead out of hunting.  I have read enough papers on the effects of lead in meat to be seriously concerned.  Plus all the effects lead has on scavenger birds (including our national symbol, the bald eagle).  Condors and vultures are particularly hard wired to swallow anything they come across that is hard/dense.  It comes from their incredibly fast digestive systems, they have difficulty breaking down bone.  Further, they eat meat and unlike other predatory birds their typical meat has bones too large to swallow...so if they come across something hard in the meat, they are programmed to swallow it.  In a natural setting, it might be a bone fragment, in a modern situation with a gutpile, it may be a fragment containing lead. 

Birds cannot withstand much lead in their bloodstream, it's significantly MORE toxic to them.  Further, lead debilitates the central nervous system.  They gotta master flying, and with any appreciable amount of lead in their system, they fail and fail EPIC. 

I hear the NRA claim that the lead in poisoned raptors is natural lead in the environment, but there is yet to be any credible proof that this is the case.  Lead comes in four isotopes.  One isotope was commonly used in gasoline, another was found in some natural background levels, and two isotopes are typically found in mineable deposits that are sources for lead used in ammunition.  Guess what two isotopes are the ones found in the blood/feathers/bones/tissue of lead poisoned raptors?

Take for example the Minnesota Raptor Center located on the campus of the University of Minnesota.  They average 120 bald eagles PER YEAR and most years about 90 of those have lead levels bordering on toxicity.  The eagles begin showing up the week after rifle deer season starts.  Since nearly all lead based ammunition comes with copper jackets, they also tested for copper.  If this was ammunition based lead poisoning there would be corresponding increases in blood copper levels.  Yup, copper was there too.

I chose several years ago to switch to non-lead ammunition or to bury the gutpile of any animal taken with my muzzleloader.  When my bullets stop moving I want them to stop killing.  I am a conservationist.  I am a conservationist like the radicals of their day, Teddy Roosevelt, Aldo Leopold, and the like.  Sometimes you gotta learn new tricks if you want to preserve the traditions we currently have and hold dear.  Once upon a time we had no limits on how many game animals we took.  Once we killed for trophies and tongues.  Once there was plenty for everyone.  Once. 

I'll be glad to share what I have learned with anyone willing to ask.  No anti-hunting rhetoric here!

[mullet]

That's why I like my .300 WnMg. No blood trail or bullet in the gut pile.

[JW_Halverson]

The bullet in the gutpile is really a minor contributor.  It's the lead that is shed from the bullet as it mushrooms.  The smaller the fragment, the greater the surface area to volume ratio making it dissolve in the digestive tract faster and more complete.  No lead bullet retains 100% weight, and it is the shed portion that remains in the tissues that throws in the monkey wrench. The better quality ammo manufacturers acknowledge this and work hard to bond the lead core to the copper jacket, but even the best ammo under the best condition sheds weight.  And they shed weight at  greater percentages at the higher speeds that better ammo is often pushed to.

The x-rays of shot animals show what is being called a "blizzard" of lead particulate because it resembles flakes of snow.  These small flakes are small enough that you won't even feel them as you eat them.  Compounding this is the body's reaction to lead once it is absorbed into the blood stream...there is no process that the body has that can eliminate lead.  Once it is in your blood stream it cannot be eliminated, not by kidneys or the liver. 

The switch to copper fixes that problem, a bird of prey or a human simply cannot eat enough copper to kill them! 

[M-P]

There are plenty of crazies here.....and some might include me in that group.  Johnny Carson used to quip that the US was tilted and all the nuts rolled to California.   The weather and outdoor opportunities can not be beat though. 
As a former falconer and veterinarian who has treated various birds of prey for lead toxicity I can tell you that lead bullets definitely cause problems.  I don't cry too much for the loss of an individual vulture, but the condors and falcons are limited in number and magnificent to see.  All sorts of eagles and hawks are quite happy to eat "found" meat too and can get poisoned.   So, the problem is real.  You don't have to be a big fan of raptors to be depressed by seeing an eagle die of lead poisoning.
The response by politicians has been, as usual, to ignore it as long as possible and then go to the opposite extreme.  Nothing new there and I'm sure some anti-hunting groups helped push the legislation in hopes it would further their agenda.  I'm not sure would the best answer is, but I do know there's never been any lead in my arrows!
Ron

[Buckeye Guy]

Thanks JW
Now I know why I can't fly !!!!
My arrows do not contain traces of lead , But may contain traces of nuts !!
Keep your chin up California is scheduled to fall into the ocean any day now !!

[Traxx]

You know,sometimes these threads really chap my hide.I hear the same old slights about California from people,all the time on these threads.I wonder how many of them,have even been to Ca.Now im not saying the political circus in Ca is not something to abhor,but to judge the whole state and its people,for the actions of its politicians,is disheartening.

There are more than 1 California.There is Northern Ca,central Ca and Southern Ca.Completely different topography,with completely different cultures and political attitudes.Unfortunately,the majority of the population,lies in Centrall and southern,so they have the majority of the representation and therefore law passing abilities.Actually,there is a lot of disdain toward Southern Ca,by the Northern Californians.Why do you think there have been efforts in the past,to divide the state and there is a new effort going on as we speak.Look up,the State of Jefferson.The Northerners,call them Flatlanders.
We have the Same issues here in Nevada,probably because of the Southern Ca people,or Prunies as Nevadans call them, are infesting our state,and bring their political attitudes with them and vote like minded people into political offices.

What i think is funny,is that many people in Ca,are ashamed of the political representation of their state and that line of North Ca seems to  creep further south every time,they are pressed to tell you where they came from.LOL

[skarhand]

Funny that you mention that Traxx, lol. My hometown I grew up in and where my parents still live, voted (in vain), to secede from the state last month, lol.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/09/04/northern-california-county-board-votes-for-secession-from-state/
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/05/california-county-votes-for-secession-from-state-cites-overregulation/

[mullet]

Yep, been there. I started out in Sacramento and worked my way south, visiting family and friends. I was ready to go back to Colorado after I went to LA.

[bubby]

traxx your right it's not all bad here in Cali, I live in Red Bluff in Tehama Co and the average cutoff for most the people I know is Willows, because of the good duck and goose hunting, everything below is So Cal , and scarhand there aint nothing like going to a football game in Yreka and watching the big bucks grazing on the field and riding bulls out at the Montague rodeo, always had fun up there

[Traxx]

Yep Bubby,
I consider it about where the State makes the big bend.There are a lot of little bergs south of that line,that fit in the Northern frame of mind,especially on the eastern side,but you hafta draw the line,somewhere.LOL

When were you ridin Bulls in Montague?
I may have been there with ya.Spent plenty of time in Redbluff as well.

[bubby]

I was rodeoing back in the seventy's traxx, grew up hitting all those shows Montague,mccloud weed Etna anywhere, good times

[Traxx]

I was Rodeoin from bout 78 to 98.Had a break in between for about 5 years to run an outfit er two then cracked back out again .Wonder if we ever run into each other?

[bubby]

Send me a pm and we'll talk traxx

[4dog]

been to cali once...made it back to texas as fast as i could,, surprised bowman hasnt chimed in at all,probably out cutting wood.... wait,,,thats illegal there too!   lol