Help Tell Me what I should try next!

[CherokeeKC]

I just finished my first bow.  Its a hickory flatbow 57# @ 28".  I pull it to about 53-55lb.  I made 2 cane arrows for it.  The cane is 3/8" on big end and about 5/16 on nock end and 29" long.  The foreshaft is 8" with total arrow being 36" long.

My problem is when I shoot the arrows I can hear the rear of the arrow hit the bow when shot.  Any ideas on what might be causing this?  Should I shorten the arrow by making a shorter foreshaft?  Any ideas are appreciated.

I would not think the spine is too high since the arrow is so long and the size of the cane is about right for that weight bow.

[H Rhodes]

There are a few things you can try.  Cane shafts have a stiff side to them, and you have to figure out which side is the stiff one and always shoot with it next to the bow.  I don't use foreshafts and my arrows are never more than 31 inches long, so I don't know about that.  Something tells me you would be happier with a shorter arrow, but I can't cite you the physics on it...       You might adjust/raise your brace height till the bow quietens down.   

[mullet]

The arrow being that long with a wood foreshaft would tell me that it is under spined.

[Salvador 06]

How high is your brace height? Is the nocking point placed above 90 degrees to the bow.  It may not be arrow length. 

[twisted hickory]

In my limited experience I have found if a shaft is a little under spined it will simply shoot to the right. if it is slightly over spined it will shoot a little to the left at 20 yds. if it is really under spined it will shoot a lot to the left at 20 yds and / or smack the arrow pass. try a shorter arrow and see if it goes away. Assuming the bow is correctly tuned with a reasonable brace
Hope it helps,
Greg.

[CherokeeKC]

Thanks guys.
Salvador the brace height is 5 3/4".  I dont have a nock point set yet so I eye it.

I was trying longer arrows because several people have said they are more forgiving.  I believe Billy Berger is one that uses a longer arrow.

I will shorten the arrow to see if that helps.
I am worried I wont have enough weight if I take away the foreshaft however.  What is absolute minimum weight you guys would use for deer?  500grains?

[artcher1]

First thing, are you using any type of point on your arrows? If so, how much weight? A cane arrow that length would not require any point weight IMO.

How wide is your bow's handle?

What type of cane are you using?

You don't have to look for the stiff side(s) of a cane arrow. Orient the shaft to where one of the leaf/stem areas is down on the hand or shelf. Simply shoot the arrow from both sides to find it's best shooting side. Using a good spine tester and a better understanding of cane/boo arrows this latter procedure is unnecessary..............Art

[half eye]

CKC,
    ya probably want to take Mullet's advice. That hard wood foreshaft is part of the head for all practical purposes so you really are underspined. Have you ever thought of mounting the head directly to the cane? That's how I make stone headed cane hunting arrows and never had any trouble doing that. Just one old guys 2-cents worth, by I believe that will solve yer problem.
rich

[CherokeeKC]

Artcher the bows handle is 1.25" wide but the string tracks 3/16 toward arrow side. 

The point on Cane #1 is 152 grains (g).  The 8" foreshaft is 290g and overall arrow weight is 715g.  The 29" Arrow shaft with feathers is 425g. 

The point on Cane #2 is about 70g.  The 8" foreshaft is 267g and overall weight of 700g.  The 29" Arrow shaft with feathers is 432g.

I did not weigh/spine anything while making the arrows.  I just picked cane that was about 3/8" on large end. 

The spine of a good shooting viburnum arrow reads about 55#.  This does not take into account the shaft is 29" and 75g head.

These two cane shafts spined at 95# not taking into account the length of shaft and weight of points.

This tells me the cane shafts are way too stiff but I would have thought the extra length and weight of foreshafts would have brought the spine down enough???  Am I wrong?

I noticed today that the cane I made these 2 arrows from was dead standing cane.  It is still strong but is browner and has a few of those spots in places when its dead.  Maybe this is the reason these shafts are stiffer than normal for this diameter??

I also took the foreshaft out of one cane shaft and shot it by itself.  It flew straight but still hit bow on passing.  I cut 3" off of foreshaft and shot the arrow and it still hit the bow on passing.  Maybe I just need to give up on these two arrows.  I hate to not use them tho because I put some time in.

Here are a couple pics that show diameter and hopefully the deader/browner color of two bottom arrows.  The top shaft will soon be an arrow and was not dead standing.

[twisted hickory]

Thanks guys.
Salvador the brace height is 5 3/4".  I dont have a nock point set yet so I eye it.

I was trying longer arrows because several people have said they are more forgiving.  I believe Billy Berger is one that uses a longer arrow.

I will shorten the arrow to see if that helps.
I am worried I wont have enough weight if I take away the foreshaft however.  What is absolute minimum weight you guys would use for deer?  500grains?

try twisting the string up a bit till ya get to around 6 to 6.25 brace. I have not been able to get as good a flight while bareshafting my arrows for my bows at less than 6 brace. Others experience may be otherwise. Just what I have experienced.
500 grains is fine for a weight imo. This years hunting bows are 58lbs and 69lbs and shooting arrows from 520 to 650 grains. Last year I hunted w a 45 lb bow and a 445grain arrow I got almost a pass thru at 10 yards and broad head hit ribs going in and out.
hope ya get one this year,
Greg

[artcher1]

First off, I noticed in your last picture that the leaf/stem area of the lower arrow isn't aligned with it's string groove. Without proper orientation to the bow, best flight can't be achieved.

Using the +/- 5# rule over 28", you can subtract 40# from the total spine. Probably another 15# for that heavy of a foreshaft. Natural taper or weight forward of the shaft itself, 10-15#. An additional 5# or so for that 152gr point. Figure it up, I get 70-75#  of spine needed before the dynamic spine required for your bow. So, if your shafts are 95#, that leaves you shooting a 20-25# dynamically spined arrow. Ouch!

So if'n I were you, I would start with proper orientation of the shaft to the bow, and then do the math..........Art

[CherokeeKC]

Thanks twisted.

Artcher so the leaf/stem area should be in-line/parallel with nock (alternating leaf/stem area vertical if nock is vertical in pic)?

[artcher1]

Thanks twisted.

Artcher so the leaf/stem area should be in-line/parallel with nock (alternating leaf/stem area vertical if nock is vertical in pic)?

That's correct Cherokee...........................Art

[mullet]

CKC,
    ya probably want to take Mullet's advice. That hard wood foreshaft is part of the head for all practical purposes so you really are underspined. Have you ever thought of mounting the head directly to the cane? That's how I make stone headed cane hunting arrows and never had any trouble doing that. Just one old guys 2-cents worth, by I believe that will solve yer problem.
rich

  Rich, thanks for the compliment, but when it comes to arrows I'll go to the back of the bus when Mr. Butner starts handing out advice. I fly by the seat of my pants when it comes to making arrows.

[artcher1]

 [/quote]  Rich, thanks for the compliment, but when it comes to arrows I'll go to the back of the bus when Mr. Butner starts handing out advice. I fly by the seat of my pants when it comes to making arrows.
[/quote]