How do you draw a high-weight English Longbow?

[adb]

That's really interesting.  I wonder how much of that is dependent on the tiller of the bow? Most warbows are fairly stiff in the centre until right at the last few inches of a 32" draw.  If the extra inch or two came from the tips as compared to the middle, would it have a different effect on the cast?

That's a good question, too. I know I tiller my warbows to only come around full compass right at full draw. I know that extra inch or two above 30" sure makes a difference in cast. As a result of this 'discovery', I'm now shooting 31" arrows. Given my stature, that's about it. I just can't get to 32".

[WillS]

Perhaps with a bit of research and trial/error, it would be possible to adjust/refine a bow's tiller to give the same benefit in cast without having to be drawn a full 32".  Obviously many archers just aren't built to draw 32", but most commercially available warbows are tillered the same, out to 32".  I wonder if a bit of tweaking and redistributing of the working limb at full draw could make up the difference on a shorter draw?  What a horribly wordy way of saying something simple. 

Somebody who doesn't draw 32" won't get the full benefit of a warbow tillered to 32".  So is there a way of keeping the cast the same, while allowing for a shorter draw?

[Del the cat]

Perhaps with a bit of research and trial/error, it would be possible to adjust/refine a bow's tiller to give the same benefit in cast without having to be drawn a full 32".  Obviously many archers just aren't built to draw 32", but most commercially available warbows are tillered the same, out to 32".  I wonder if a bit of tweaking and redistributing of the working limb at full draw could make up the difference on a shorter draw?  What a horribly wordy way of saying something simple. 

Somebody who doesn't draw 32" won't get the full benefit of a warbow tillered to 32".  So is there a way of keeping the cast the same, while allowing for a shorter draw?

IMO
No, it's simple arithmetic and physics!
Unless of course you resort to the scientific redesign of the bow as per Hickman which gave us the modern target bow, or change to a different bow style. (Arguably the Victorian tiller is more efficient but prob not so with heavier arrows like a warbow)
It's like saying can we adapt a fish to ride a bicycle... yeah, but it won't be fish anymore!
Just multiply the power stroke by half the draw weight. If the bow has a fairly linear force draw curve it's a good approximation. Just try it for a couple of different draw lengths.
Even at the same draw weight:-
Say you assume a 7" brace (measured from the back of the bow, (same as the draw length is measured) that gives a power stroke of 21" vs 25" for the 28 and 32" draws....  that's 19% increase evenat the same draw weight!


IMO
The whole concept of the handle not starting to bend until the last few inches of draw is just bonkers. The whole bow moves in unison all the time... ok it may not be visible to the naked eye, but the force is being applied to the whole limb over the whole draw. As the string angle changes the tips could possible get less leverage on them, but c'mon we are talking about longbows not horse bows with weird angles, bridges and changes in force draw curve.
Del

[adb]

I don't know Del... pics speak for themselves... First pic 3/4 draw and handle doing dick. Second pic full draw and handle bending. And that's a 30" draw. At 31" the handle does even more work.

[WillS]

Can I go off at a tangent momentarily, and ask you what heads are those Adam?  They look huge but that could just be the camera playing tricks.

[Del the cat]

@adb... I bet if you compare pic 1 with a pic unstrung, you will see that there is some bend.
You can make your observation to any point on the limb... in pic 1... not so much. In pic 2 more...

Out of interest it would be easy to test on the tiller. Tape or glue a couple of thin rods, bits of cane/spills/whatever (say 12" long) sticking out from the back of the bow at 6" either side of center Taping to the side would be fairly secure). Measure between the tips. Brace it, measure again. Winch it back 6" at a time measuring each time.
Plot a graph of the results, post it on here and we can all marvel at at it, and someone can form high flown mathematical theories to prove what you have already measured
Del

[adb]

@adb... I bet if you compare pic 1 with a pic unstrung, you will see that there is some bend.
You can your observation to any point on the limb... in pic 1... not so much. In pic 2 more...

Out of interest it would be easy to test on the tiller. Tape or glue a couple of thin rods, bits of cane/spills/whatever (say 12" long) sticking out from the back of the bow at 6" either side of center Taping to the side would be fairly secure). Measure between the tips. Brace it, measure again. Winch it back 6" at a time measuring each time.
Plot a graph of the results, post it on here and we can all marvel at at it, and someone can form high flown mathematical theories to prove what you have already measured
Del

No thanks. Too busy making bows.  I simply assess tiller and draw weight by looking at it. 

[adb]

Can I go off at a tangent momentarily, and ask you what heads are those Adam?  They look huge but that could just be the camera playing tricks.

Type 16 bodkins. They might look a bit bigger because they're dirty.

[WillS]

They look nicely made.  I've got some Hector Cole 16s and they're tiny compared to yours.  I much prefer the bigger ones.  They your EWBS standards?

[adb]

No, they're kind of a livery hybrid. 60-70 grams. 30"-31", 1/2" tapering to 3/8", horn insert self nock of course. 7.5" feathers, but only front whipped, not fully wrapped. Some poplar, some oak, some birch.
In our group, we call them our 'light arrow.' Must be 60 grams and 30" minimum. Our 'heavy' arrow class is 80 grams minimum.

[mikekeswick]

Del's right you know Adb......

As for making a 32 draw bow the same efficency at a shorter draw the answer is to narrow it.
With regards to using different tillers well IMO it all just comes back to front profile taper. The corresponding thickness taper then determines how much bend it can take at any point along the limb without taking excessive set.....simples 

[WillS]

That's curious.  What does that mean for a typical warbow then?  I've always made a self yew warbow front profile thick in the middle until about midlimb, with a slow taper towards the tips from there, then a rapid taper over the last 6" or so.  The thickness taper is always straight, from handle area to tip. 

That means that in theory the middle shouldnt bend while the tips bend excessively, which for a full compass bow is of course not the case...

[Del the cat]

That's curious.  What does that mean for a typical warbow then?  I've always made a self yew warbow front profile thick in the middle until about midlimb, with a slow taper towards the tips from there, then a rapid taper over the last 6" or so.  The thickness taper is always straight, from handle area to tip. 

That means that in theory the middle shouldnt bend while the tips bend excessively, which for a full compass bow is of course not the case...

If you take a length of 1x1 slap a string on it and put it on the tiller you will see it bends mostly in the middle.
Parallel front profile near the grip doesn't mean it won't bend there.
All this "front profile equates to tiller" is (IMO) bunkum...
(Thickness is vastly more important^3 )
Del
(Scampers off to hide in my secret cat nest before Mike gets back.... as this is our fave' argument  and I was getting really worried when Mike said 'Dels right')

[adb]

Sorry, Del... I respectfully disagree. Even tapers make even bends. That includes both front profiles and thickness profiles. This is something I've learned thru experience over the years.

Also, yes... bows are beginning to bend throughout their length from the beginning, but the amount they bend and where they're doing it will vary depending on tiller. That being said, I tiller my warbows so they don't fully bend in the middle until right at the end of full draw. Pictures don't lie.

[Peter-t123]

dont bother trying to teach yourself to draw a heavy bow to 28, start as you mean to go on and draw it to 32...