Author Topic: Question About Fluting  (Read 3216 times)

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Ahnlaashock

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Question About Fluting
« on: February 03, 2014, 12:40:36 pm »
On the types where the flute runs the entire length of the piece, would setting up a platform like you were going for an overshot, allow you to run the flutes full length, using direct percussion?  I am assuming you would have to do this pretty early, while you still had good width. 

Offline JackCrafty

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Re: Question About Fluting
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2014, 06:51:57 pm »
Yes, in theory.  It has been tried by most experienced knappers at one point or another.  It results in "end snap" or folding of the workpiece.  The workpiece must be braced so that it ABSOLUTELY will not bend...  a very difficult thing to do.  I've never witnessed a full length flute flake removed with direct percussion.  I think Jim Winn's percussion Folsum point video comes very close but he uses an unsupported horizontal punch (indirect percussion).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG2REDTbYcs
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 06:58:58 pm by jackcrafty »
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Ahnlaashock

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Re: Question About Fluting
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2014, 07:09:53 pm »
There is one on Paleoplanet, posted right after I asked, done with antler billet.  He used the isolated nipple type setup I think, with the tip against an antler anvil.  KnapperBob's Folsom Repro.  His flutes are flat tho, where one formed from an overshot type strike would not be.  The point is pretty thin in the middle. 

Offline JackCrafty

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Re: Question About Fluting
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2014, 07:16:16 pm »
I've seen KnapperBob's Folsum fluting technique where he uses indirect percussion.  My connection to paleoplanet is acting up right now and I can't get on the site to take a look at his direct percussion technique...
Any critter tastes good with enough butter on it.

Patrick Blank
Midland, Texas
Youtube: JackCrafty, Allergic Hobbit, Patrick Blank

Where's Rock? Public Waterways, Road Cuts, Landscape Supply, Knap-Ins.
How to Cook It?  200° for 24hrs then 275° to 500° for 4hrs (depending on type), Cool for 12hr

Offline caveman2533

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Re: Question About Fluting
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2014, 08:43:19 pm »
I have seen Bob flute, in person, with direct percussion using an antler anvil. The preform is very flat to start with otherwise the flute scar will not be flat. Very little convexity from tip to base.  I did it twice after watching him, and have not been able to reproduce it again.  Its not all about the platform. The preform must be just right also.
steve

Offline AncientArcher76

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Re: Question About Fluting
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2014, 03:28:45 am »
I agree with Caveman!  Nipple prep and isolation is just one key component!  Having the right amount of convexity will help to run longer flutes although I have fluted freehand with a short moose billet to the tip on many occasions but almost never get the same results on the other side.  If I can get my stuff organized I will try and make a video.  My youtube page is so old it almost look ridiculous on how much my skill level has changed since then.  Also before I forget having good stone will make a difference too.  I have ran long flute channels on tough stuff like argillite but glassy high grade chert is the best choice.  Theres all kinds of ways and methods to run long flute skinny or wide.  It can be done with direct percussion but when it comes down to it obtaining the end result with a greater degree of success is key.  Indirect punching is easier and by far pressure is in my opinion the best when fluting!

Russ
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Offline JackCrafty

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Re: Question About Fluting
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2014, 09:41:53 am »
Any critter tastes good with enough butter on it.

Patrick Blank
Midland, Texas
Youtube: JackCrafty, Allergic Hobbit, Patrick Blank

Where's Rock? Public Waterways, Road Cuts, Landscape Supply, Knap-Ins.
How to Cook It?  200° for 24hrs then 275° to 500° for 4hrs (depending on type), Cool for 12hr

Offline Outbackbob48

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Re: Question About Fluting
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2014, 10:46:05 am »
I would say with the (jig) fluting that I have done, the preparation of the preform is  critical to the outcome. Better have everything just right if you want flutes to travel all the way. I still have plenty of failures while using the jig :( That's ok, Wouldn't want it to be to easy, I guess I need the challenge an flintknapping as a whole has not let me down, The only think that I have found easy in flintknapping is the breaking of points   :o :o Bob

Ahnlaashock

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Re: Question About Fluting
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2014, 11:15:15 am »
I had read those already. 
I was kind of shocked that the one was left for fluting until that late stage, and was then going to need such a heavy flake removed for fluting to work at all.  Heavy pocketed edge flakes as guides? 
The nipple looks to be very similar to the ones on recovered Clovis artifacts, but the pronounced ridge changes the entire dynamic it would seem. 
When I have attempted to do those kinds of direct strikes, a lot of the time they dive at the end.  I actually produced a piece that looks like the one in Bob's thread, only the divot at the end, was from the flake diving, not from something later. 
Part of my problem on learning this stuff, is that in the raw Burlington, I don't have control at that force level yet.  My heat treat makes it look different, but doesn't much change the working properties, and so far, I prefer hitting the raw. 
My goal, was to learn how to make tools, using available resources, the way someone in that time period would be forced to do, if abandoned on their own, or lost their kit.  I have reached that.  It simply isn't that hard if there is Burlington lying all over the place like here.  Now, I want to get fancy. 
That is what prompted the question. 

I am working spikes and bevels out of chips right now, and the spikes make me want to flute them for hafting, without losing the strength of the spike type tip.  I don't want flat flutes.  I want the blade to remain heavier in the center and narrow.  I want pretty much an overshot flake that runs lengthwise. 
Still not sure on the bevels if you are supposed to come to a needle tip, or of you are supposed to create the chisel type tip the bevels encourage.  Getting the chisel type correct on small points, is almost impossible for me so far.   
« Last Edit: February 04, 2014, 12:33:37 pm by Ahnlaashock »

Offline iowabow

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Re: Question About Fluting
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2014, 11:52:33 am »
Did enough jig work to learn how to flute both sides base to tip. As jackcrafty stated good support is important (with the jig) or you will cut the piece in half. When fluting without my jig (not easy) I seem to do well on one side but....darned if that other side will cooperate. I found that a good smooth convex surface in both directions is important. You need to spend a lot of time learning how to build the correct nipples and break flakes.  I believe I watched paleojims videos for the nipple creation. I also use these ideas with a modification to set up platforms during reduction.
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Offline Zuma

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Re: Question About Fluting
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2014, 05:13:41 pm »
I will have to search to find it but somewhere there is a study of Folsom point manufacturing techniques that is very telling.
It basically goes on to say-- they struck from all corners. Tip to base with the intent to wind up super thin, no matter if it was going to be a loss. Grab another hunk and begin again till the intended results are achieved. Actually building your point around the flutes. Don't work all that well for Clovis because of the length and lop.
I have tried it. It works well on the little Folsoms.
Zuma
If you are a good detective the past is at your feet. The future belongs to Faith.

Offline caveman2533

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Re: Question About Fluting
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2014, 10:59:19 pm »
  Heavy pocketed edge flakes as guides?   


Correctly quoted:  Channel flakes tend to be guided by the hollow-ground effect.   

 If you look closely at the preform Bob is referring to you will see that most of the pressure flaking along the edge does not run over the top of the preform. This creates a hollow ground effect along the entire edge from tip to base which creates a very distinct ridge down the middle. Hence the guiding of the flute channel.

Also you referred to the divot at the end of one of his points. That is an effect of the flake diving right at the end of the flute Not something he added in there later. There are Folsom point preforms that are found with a heavy bulbous end left on them, on purpose to force the flute to dive thru the point at the termination of the flute. This will create a knife edge on the tip of the point.

Ahnlaashock

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Re: Question About Fluting
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2014, 03:02:42 pm »
I had read his mention of a later problem removing the step, to mean he caused it later.  You are correct. 
I can do that in the raw, but I have never managed to get one to actually run off the end yet. 
I need to take a trip and gather some more hammerstones.  I have most of my good ones squared off badly, so I can't hit a nipple type set up right with them anyway.   At least not the way I would need to for this experiment.  I don't have a large antler billet yet.   I would have to use the brass billet, or try indirect with antler. 
We have white stuff again, and it is not supposed to reach freezing till sometime next week.  I am going to work pressure stuff until I can get outside again.  We can get back into this when I can actually do hammerstone work again.   
I am working on opal a lot right now since I am trapped inside, and on the Spikes I mentioned before.  I managed to get the last one beveled from the base almost half way for hafting this time without fluting.  If I can repeat that, I may stop trying altogether for right now.