Oak as a bow wood -- Times have changed!

[George Tsoukalas]

I saw a white oak bow in a Native American museum. I think it was in Montreal or the Peabody. White oak is pretty indestructible. Jawge

[bubby]

I cant think of any wood that would beat hickory in an elasticity race. You can literally tie it in knots.

Greebe its not the species of wood as much as its form that is "looked down" on. Some people are passionate about stave bows and have no time for a board. Just personal preference.

sorry pearls but WO don't break

[PatM]

 Your memory must be fuzzy or you didn't peruse the TBB very closely. Those books are filled with examples of Red Oak bows. I would say those books started the trend.

[Greebe]

Your memory must be fuzzy or you didn't peruse the TBB very closely. Those books are filled with examples of Red Oak bows. I would say those books started the trend.

LOL, there could be some fuzz.

[George Tsoukalas]

Grebe, I understand what you are saying and I agree. The whitewoods have been under appreciated in the US in general. Oak, hickory, etc are still called second string woods. The prevalent attitudes are if the bow is not made from osage or yew it is a sub par bow no matter how well is shoots.

Such is not a point of view I share. Osage and yew are excellent woods for sure. However the whitewoods like hickory and oak can hold their own. Credit Comstock and Baker with a revival of interest in their use. Fact is great bows were made by Native Americans from whitewoods long before the 20th Century. Jawge

[Buckeye Guy]

I think it would take several pages to answer your question !
The fellows here have hit on some of the issues , but There are a few more !
So as to not bore folks to death I have picked just one .
Red oak was disqualified during one of the first of the board bow arras because this country had not yet suffered a sizable energy scare , with energy seaming to be so cheep and readily available kiln dried boards where way over dried. red oak boards dried to 2-4 % moister have little chance of survival as a bow!
With lemon wood and hickory coming out of the poorer regions they were generally air dried rather than kiln dried which made the difference way out of balance!
When you figure that into  the equation with all the other changes that have come along , why wouldn't there be a little miss info out there floating around ?
Have fun and welcome back to the great addiction !!

You can make a bow from most anything just some work better than others !

[ionicmuffin]

I think it would take several pages to answer your question !
The fellows here have hit on some of the issues , but There are a few more !
So as to not bore folks to death I have picked just one .
Red oak was disqualified during one of the first of the board bow arras because this country had not yet suffered a sizable energy scare , with energy seaming to be so cheep and readily available kiln dried boards where way over dried. red oak boards dried to 2-4 % moister have little chance of survival as a bow!
With lemon wood and hickory coming out of the poorer regions they were generally air dried rather than kiln dried which made the difference way out of balance!
When you figure that into  the equation with all the other changes that have come along , why wouldn't there be a little miss info out there floating around ?
Have fun and welcome back to the great addiction !!

You can make a bow from most anything just some work better than others !

I agree with you there, but if I remember correctly any wood can be rehydrated even if it isn't to the same MC as when it started. So if this is true then it stands to reason that one could buy a board that looks good in grain ect. but just has to wait a few months or put the board in the bathroom until it stops gaining weight, then reduce the mc till its where it should have been ie 9-10% did i miss anything?

[Greebe]

Grebe, I understand what you are saying and I agree. The whitewoods have been under appreciated in the US in general. Oak, hickory, etc are still called second string woods. The prevalent attitudes are if the bow is not made from osage or yew it is a sub par bow no matter how well is shoots.

Such is not a point of view I share. Osage and yew are excellent woods for sure. However the whitewoods like hickory and oak can hold their own. Credit Comstock and Baker with a revival of interest in their use. Fact is great bows were made by Native Americans from whitewoods long before the 20th Century. Jawge

Hey, glad to know there is someone else that has seen the change in the last 15-20 years.  I am going to the lumber mill Monday to pick up something for my next bow build.  All they have is the following; Red Oak, Poplar, Hard and Soft Maple are their primary stocked woods while Cherry, Basswood, White Oak, Ash and Walnut are their secondary stocked woods which means more expensive.  Any preferences there?

Thanks,
Greebe

[Greebe]

I think it would take several pages to answer your question !
The fellows here have hit on some of the issues , but There are a few more !
So as to not bore folks to death I have picked just one .
Red oak was disqualified during one of the first of the board bow arras because this country had not yet suffered a sizable energy scare , with energy seaming to be so cheep and readily available kiln dried boards where way over dried. red oak boards dried to 2-4 % moister have little chance of survival as a bow!
With lemon wood and hickory coming out of the poorer regions they were generally air dried rather than kiln dried which made the difference way out of balance!
When you figure that into  the equation with all the other changes that have come along , why wouldn't there be a little miss info out there floating around ?
Have fun and welcome back to the great addiction !!

You can make a bow from most anything just some work better than others !

That is an interesting observation.  I had not heard that before.  Maybe that would explain why I had one red oak long bow blow up on me.  It seemed as dry as can be.  But that was made from a board in the mid 90's.

[BowSlayer]

i just made an unbacked molle from white oak or somthin like that. not bad, i can't see anything wrong with it. 

[George Tsoukalas]

I'd go with the white oak and then the red oak. Jawge

[square shooter]

I made a red oak board bow backed with hickory. It was my first fully made bow, tho i'd modified some bows. 70" ktk, as one goal was that it wouldn't break, and i didnt know much. 50 lbs at 28" and it shoots a heavy arrow very close to 150 yds, averaged from both directions, wind to 90°. So i believe oak can make a fine Longbow. But while a Longbow is definately harder to manoeuvre in the brush, it's quieter. He who experiments the most, wins the most. 

[Dances with squirrels]

"The prevalent attitudes are if the bow is not made from osage or yew it is a sub par bow no matter how well is shoots."

With some folks perhaps, George, but not me... well, not exactly. A good bow is a good bow... and means the bowyer designed and tillered it with the strengths and weaknesses of the wood species as his guide. Osage and yew are not immune to limits. IMO, the best bows push the limits of the wood species used, but don't excede them.

It's only necessary to account for those weaknesses because all bow woods are NOT created equal. Most tree species are virtually worthless for wooden bows. Many are good. Few are great.

If a bow is designed and tillered to suit the capabilities of the wood species without being overbuilt... if it meets my other functional, practical requisites of a 'good bow' like balance, tiller, timing, fit, finish, etc... if it's truly a good bow, I respect if for what it is. I may only consider it a sub-par bow/wood then, because it was unable to suit my design preferences due to its limits.

But the main reasons I don't use red oak boards for bows is... I like to select, cut, and care for my own bow wood, or fully trust another competent bowyer to do so. I would sooner cut a red oak tree to make a bow than use a board selected, cured, and cared for with only static applications like shelving, furnature, etc. in mind. I also prefer my bows short, narrow, fully radiused, and with some character perhaps. Basically, I think red oak boards just have too many detours for me to get to where I want to go 

Has osage spoiled me rotten?

[Buckeye Guy]

I am with Jawge on the first of those choices being white oak
But after seeing Ryoons poplar bow I am not sure of my second choice !

I don't have scientific proof but wood cells seem to change and not fully hydrate once they reach a certain heat level , I believe that is what is going on when we heat treat the belly of a bow !

[George Tsoukalas]

DWS, I think I got my first shooter just about '92-'93. I'm not much for keeping records. I wish I did sometimes. But anyway I made a series of bows. Lots of bows. BL was my wood of choice as it grows fast in yard so I learned on the stuff...cut my bow making teeth on it. I haven't done a BL in a bit. It's a good wood.

Well, I ran out of wood...dry wood. TBB#2 just came out  so I headed for Home Depot and got a nice straight grained board that I backed with silk. I still have it and my first BL bow.

So boards for me are not a do all...end all... but they are good when you run out of dry log staves and ya gotta just make a bow.

I like osage too.

Jawge