verry thinn ring to chase.

[akila]

Hy ... i have did something that i taught its imposibile...im talking aboute my honey locust stave that i wass posting her a fiew days a go.I sad that i should try to chase a ring on her and this is whatt i did...here are some pictures.





This is the stave ..i have worked 2 days on her to get one single ring from end to end.I want to ask you something...do you think that those thinn rings on the back it will hold the bow together??or i sould still back it with something.

[George Tsoukalas]

I'm afraid that first picture shows several ring violations. On the lower right it looks like you have the start of a ring. Now scrape all along the right side for a foot or so, down the middl and down the left side.  They start right in the beginning of the stave and go all the way up its length. Take the stave outside in the sun and tilt it up towards you. That looks like a very difficult stave to chase a ring on but she'll teach you. Do over and post again, if you want. Jawge

[akila]

I'm afraid that first picture shows several ring violations. On the lower right it looks like you have the start of a ring. Now scrape all along the right side for a foot or so, down the middl and down the left side.  They start right in the beginning of the stave and go all the way up its length. Take the stave outside in the sun and tilt it up towards you. That looks like a very difficult stave to chase a ring on but she'll teach you. Do over and post again, if you want. Jawge

in the first picture is tha stave at the begining ...it wass all violated..the last 2 pictures  show the stave with one single ring.Its not seeing verry well..i should have make a close pictures with the ring of the stave..the 2 last pictures are with the chase ring..it wass realy crazy to chase those rings..i started nice and slowly,and i have made half of the stave whenn all the sudden i violate the ring... , o man i wass so angry that i sad that i will give up and i will backed the stave or something..but thenn i start all over and i finaly got it.The question  is iff its ok to make a bow with such thinn rings

[tom sawyer]

Good job, it must have taken much pateince to chase those thin rings.  I've violated rings very late in the process so I understand how frustrated you were.  Honestly, it is often possible to make a selfbow with a few violations, especially when rings are thin such that the underlying ring is doing significant tension work.  I suppose that all depends on the design too, if the bow is bending really hard (very short and high poundage) then violations are more likely to result in failure.

Thin rings aren't bad by themselves, in fact some people say that they make the best bows.  But I think thin-ringed wood is more likely to have a marginal spring to summer ratio.  Your stave has a pretty large ratio of the spring growth which is less dense and therefore more likely to take set.  It will make a bow but maybe have more set and produce less poundage than a piece of wood with more of the dense summer growth.  Which is not to say I wouldn't make a bow out of this stave, especially now that you've labored to this extent.  When future prospects arise, if you have the choice then pick the wood with more summer growth if it is available.  Good luck.

[akila]

Good job, it must have taken much pateince to chase those thin rings.  I've violated rings very late in the process so I understand how frustrated you were.  Honestly, it is often possible to make a selfbow with a few violations, especially when rings are thin such that the underlying ring is doing significant tension work.  I suppose that all depends on the design too, if the bow is bending really hard (very short and high poundage) then violations are more likely to result in failure.

Thin rings aren't bad by themselves, in fact some people say that they make the best bows.  But I think thin-ringed wood is more likely to have a marginal spring to summer ratio.  Your stave has a pretty large ratio of the spring growth which is less dense and therefore more likely to take set.  It will make a bow but maybe have more set and produce less poundage than a piece of wood with more of the dense summer growth.  Which is not to say I wouldn't make a bow out of this stave, especially now that you've labored to this extent.  When future prospects arise, if you have the choice then pick the wood with more summer growth if it is available.  Good luck.

I want to ask you something..im afraid that i never understan this ratio spring summer rings thing...summer rings are those thicker rings right? and spring rings are those thinner porous rings..??

[Pappy]

That is right and you want the spring as thin a possible.I am one of them that like thin growth
rings I think the wood is more dense and it seems to stabilize quicker and more consentent
than thick rings do.Looks like you done a good job on that one.The spring looks a little more than I would prefer if I had a choice but it should be fine.You have to work with what you have.
   Pappy

[tom sawyer]

The spring growth is the light yellow to white part of a ring.  I think its called the spring growth because it is the first material that is layed down when the tree comes out of dormancy and begins making a new layer of wood.  It is full of pores (maybe up to a third of the thickness) that carry water and nutrients up the tree, and being full of pores it is naturally going to be less dense and therefore less strong.  When you train the wood to bend, the pores are the first thing to collapse because they are essentially hollow.  It is my theory that once they have been compressed down to a similar density as the surrounding summer wood, then they behave similarly.  You can kind of see these pores when you chase a ring, when you cut into this spring growth it looks like little honeycombs.  It also has a crunchier sound when you are in that part of the wood, as opposed to more of a ringing sound when you are in summer wood.

The summer growth is the darker yellow part of a ring that is layed down later in the growing season.  My sense is that it is there more for structural purposes, to bear the weight of the tree.  As such it is more dense and less subject to being mashed thinner when you are training the bow to bend.  It also probably contains more of the extractives, those oils and other complex organic molecules that add strength to the cellulose and lignin that make up the structural component of cell walls.  Thgis is the stuff you can melt when you heat treat a bow, and as the wood cools this material will re-solidify on the cell walls and help to hold the wood in the desired position (if you are clamping it to a form, for instance.)

If you have two 1/2"-thick pieces of osage, one that is 75% summer growth and one that is 50% summer growth, then that last piece is going to have less wood in it.  It will take a little more set and also produce a little less poundage.  You can compensate for there being less wood by making it a little thicker/wider, but you can't really do anything to offset the amount of set its going to take.  I suppose you can design a bow that is not as stressed (longer and wider) but there is always going to be a tendency for the spring wood pores to collapse down.

As always, I supply more than you really wanted to know.

[akila]

Thks a lot..the answer is gr8..i finaly understand it.... thks again

[GregB]

Good explaination Tom...I enjoyed reading it!

[George Tsoukalas]

Oops. My bad. The other pics look better but I can't tell for sure. I know how you feel. I've chased rings and thought I did it only to find I cut through a ring. I had to start again. Done that many times. Jawge

[akila]

O man  its realy crazy...after 3 howers i wass chasing all most half of stave and all the sudden bang....i violate the ring ...but thenn i calm down and go over again and i finlay did it.

[George Tsoukalas]

I hear ya. Good ob. Jawge