Red Elm? I'm thinking not

[Ryan_Gill_HuntPrimitive]

I wanted to see what the deal was with "Red elm".  I see it on ebay and such and it looks different from my native elms. We don't get the thin layer of sapwood and then a lot of heart wood. So I ordered two last year and I let them season. Just made a bow from it and noticed within two seconds that there is no way that this is an elm.... The grain doesn't interlock and you can split long pieces off during the rough out stage. I chased the soft 1/2" think sapwood  off to use the the prettier heartwood. The sapwood came off super easy...which I figured it would really fight me being "elm" and all. After finishing the bow out to 50# @ 28" I am quite sure that this cannot possibly be elm..at least not like the rock hard, white stuff we have here in the southeast.  The grain on the side of the handle and such looks like maple...the bow acts like a maple too but I've never seen maple with a thin sapwood and thick heartwood before.  The belly grain and growth rings look a lot like Kentucky Coffee tree or even mulberry, but the color would be off for mulberry and it's pretty soft to be a mulberry too.  The other Kent Coffee I have worked has beautiful colors in it..which this does not....   Any Ideas as to what it might actually be to have that think sapwood and thick heartwood??? heavy growth rings and maple like edge grain?    or is Red Elm just not as awesome as white elms are???  I got two staves and they smell the same and look and feel the same.   Kinda thinking I might have got duped.  Made a good bow just the same...but I have a feeling it isn't red elm....but maybe it is??     any situation like this sound familiar to anyone?

[ionicmuffin]

well, could be ERC, but if you made it unbacked and it didn't blow then either your really good or its not ERC. I guess red elm could be as lame as you say it is. I have slippery elm. i havent tried any of it, but from what ive heard, the grain interlocks in all elms, making it near impossible to split lol.

[PEARL DRUMS]

Any pics by chance Ryan? I have some American and Red and without leaves I wouldnt know the diff. Was it stringy when you rasped it?

[Ryan_Gill_HuntPrimitive]

i will take some pics later.  definitely not erc.. I am very familiar with red cedar. i dont rasp, but stringy at all...ive worked a lot of elms and have yet to seeany elm like this..oh well.  the more i look and compare smells and staves, the more confident I am that it is a piece of kentucky coffee without much color

[Fred Arnold]

I have winged elm on my property and it's a bearcat to split but isn't that hard to work. The only experience I have with red elm is a stave purchased on ebay. It may have been too dry and just didn't feel right. I tillered it out 64 1/2 NTN , 1 15/16 from fades for 12" and then tapered to 5/8' tip, 50@28 and although I followed the grain and it had no runoffs, it broke within 50 shots. I just thought it was a bad piece of wood if there is such a thing.

[PEARL DRUMS]

Sassafrass by chance? Is it soft?

[okie64]

Ive always heard that red elm splits way easier than the white elms. Ive only messed with the white elms so I dont know that for a fact. All  the stuff that ive seen on ebay that is listed as red elm always  looked like redbud to me with the thin layer of sapwood and dark heartwood. Ive only cut redbud and never worked with it so I dont really know its working properties. Could that be what you have?

[PatM]

Red Elm IS Slippery Elm. I've generally heard that it isn't as good a self bow wood as the other Elm trees although it is highly thought of as a lamination wood for glass bows.
 

[Fred Arnold]

One of the early reads for  me on here was from the read only section. It was a elm build along done by PatB. It's still posted up top of the read only section.

The elm looked like red elm to me and since I'd never worked with anything other than osage I wanted to try something obtainable in my area.

Maybe Pat will see this and correct me if I'm wrong but the stave looked like red elm and not the winged I had seasoning.

[lostarrow]

Pics?   I am working on my first  Elm right now. Board bow. Was told it was local Red Elm from about five minutes from my house. Seems soft to work but made a nice bow. Wide limbs,took about an inch of set.  I also cut a Red Elm up North this fall (North shore of lake Huron) and an American (white) Elm this winter. About 4" dia.  I've split the Red and should be ready to try soon. I've taken some shavings off and it seems to be much harder and more dense than the board I got locally. We'll see.

[Ryan_Gill_HuntPrimitive]

I will try to get some pics up later on....  yeah now you got me thinking that it is Red Elm.   doesn't seem to be bad wood, just not nearly as dense or strong as American Elm or Winged Elm.  I but a little varnish on the belly of my other kent. coffee stave and the color is definitely different.   it must just be that Red elm isn't as good, just as many of you have sort of reported as well....   well I guess I shouldn't say it isn't as good.....seems to be fine bow wood. It just doesn't interlock nearly as well as white elms