Author Topic: In progress Roman manuballista - torsion arrow firing machine  (Read 84302 times)

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Offline jpitts

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Re: In progress Roman manuballista - torsion arrow firing machine
« Reply #60 on: November 14, 2007, 12:34:43 am »
Dane,
You'll probably be able to mount this "scorpion" onto the back of your truck.....whooooooweeee.......
Jimmy / Dallas, Georgia

Offline Dane

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Re: In progress Roman manuballista - torsion arrow firing machine
« Reply #61 on: November 14, 2007, 07:44:31 am »
lol, Jim. Actually, I drive a Saab 93 hatchback, and part of the design criteria for the large scorpion is that it fit into the back when broken down into component parts.

I have a buddy who's wife is totally paranoid about going to Manhattan even for one day. We talked about mounting it in the back of his truck, and I can protect her when she shops. "Okay, dismount and get into FAO Schwartz. Move! Move! Move! I'm covering you!" You never know with those crazy NYC barbarians.

It would look like something out of the Road Warrior :)
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline D. Tiller

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Re: In progress Roman manuballista - torsion arrow firing machine
« Reply #62 on: November 14, 2007, 04:19:19 pm »
Dane, you start building these arround the size that can be carried and I might be interrested....If I can find the money! :-)

Just wonder how they compare to medieval crosbows? Better? The Same? Or oh my god why the heck did we invent rifles!!!  ;D
“People are less likely to shoot at you if you smile at them” - Mad Jack Churchill

Offline DanaM

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Re: In progress Roman manuballista - torsion arrow firing machine
« Reply #63 on: November 14, 2007, 09:18:39 pm »
Had a thought Dane perhaps PatB would be willing to cut his beard and send it to ya, I'm sure there would be enuf hair there to
make a rope, back a bow, and insulate the house. ;) ;D Of course he might get a bit chilly in those bitter North Carolina winters ::)
"Prosperity is a way of living and thinking, and not just money or things. Poverty is a way of living and thinking, and not just a lack of money or things."

Manistique, MI

Offline Dane

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Re: In progress Roman manuballista - torsion arrow firing machine
« Reply #64 on: November 14, 2007, 09:19:29 pm »
Dane, you start building these arround the size that can be carried and I might be interrested....If I can find the money! :-)

Just wonder how they compare to medieval crosbows? Better? The Same? Or oh my god why the heck did we invent rifles!!!  ;D

Ah, but the smaller machine I am posting pictures of as I built it is man portable. It will come in around 15 lbs, and will be about 40" long in total. Not as light as a crossbow, but far more powerful, I suspect. Why would the Greek and Roman engineers spend centuries prefecting these weapons in the first place? The complexity of the rope torsion machines probably had the most to do with the almost total disapperance of these types of engines after Roman fell (a very broad statement, that!). I and some others are thinking of these as crew served, but one man can easily tote it around and fire it as quickly as you can cock it and get a new bolt in it. The rate of fire for this small machine must be really decent, as well, and I have read reports from Roman reenactors with large machines getting of 3 or 4 bolts a minute, so my assumption is that this machine has a high rate of fire when utilized optimally. I'm also guessing that this machine will be very accurate, to the point of using it for sniping at long range. Another advantage, perhaps, is that the arrow firing machines would have had a better range than even full powered war bows deployed by enemy forces.

I plan to make a leather sling for it so I can carry it in the field, in parades, etc. since it is relatively light.

I am seriously considering a power thickness planer to make future machines easier to build. The hand planing was one of the most time consuming processes thus far, as well as making the mortise and tenon joints. A power mortising machine would take care of that, but I would much rather have a thickness planer as the one major power tool for this work. I have access to other power tools, such as drill presses, so no worries there. A perfect historical way of doing this would be only hand tools from the Roman period, but that would be very challenging. No slaves to help out, either, :).

What is so exciting and daunting about this project is that I am in unfamiliar or unknown territory all the way through, in fabricating each part, estimating volume of bronze, making patterns for all the metal parts (which I am starting this weekend), making rope, etc. I have ordered horsehair to start making the ropes for the spring skeins, which I am not worried about after making so many bow strings. The wife will love when I tell her I need a rope walk, lol.

I also get to take on (sort of, :) ) all these nifty Roman titles that Immunes, or speicalized craftsmen in the legions had. Ballistrarii (makers and operators of ballista), sagittarii (arrow makers, or bolts in this case), aerarii (bronze workers), and fabri, the men working fabricae, or workshops. Of course, each specialist would contribute to the whole machine, and the friends here who are contributing to this work do kind of fill that role, meaning my friend the smith from the Ozarks who is crafting bronze nails, and Loki, who is sending me that really special point forged by Hector Cole.

More pics soon.

Dane






Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline Dane

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Re: In progress Roman manuballista - torsion arrow firing machine
« Reply #65 on: November 15, 2007, 03:45:08 pm »
Had a thought Dane perhaps PatB would be willing to cut his beard and send it to ya, I'm sure there would be enuf hair there to
make a rope, back a bow, and insulate the house. ;) ;D Of course he might get a bit chilly in those bitter North Carolina winters ::)

But what about the little bird families, and those possums living in there? No, we can't be cruel to our wildlife. :)

Dane
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline Dane

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Re: In progress Roman manuballista - torsion arrow firing machine
« Reply #66 on: November 16, 2007, 06:52:41 pm »
Okay, just got in a 1 lb. bundle of horse hair, 27" - 29" inches long today. Really excited to start making yarn, and then rope with this stuff. Eyeballing it, I have no honest idea how much hair I will need in total. I played with the idea of making a primitive ropewalk, but the diameter of the stuff I will need for the manuballista is not that great.

The color is just beautiful, so it should make handsome rope. Colors I had a choice from from my supplier include black, mixed, sorrel, white, etc. The lighter colors are dramatically more expensive. In a way, it will be a shame to have most of the rope springs hidden behind the plating, but the springs will be visible from the back of the weapon, so I can show how the springs work.

Wish me a bit of luck on this part, but I don't expect too many problems. I do have a book coming in specifically for making rope out of horse hair, and will read that before beginning. Oh, btw, mostly horse hair rope is apparently made for macarte, a kind of horse thingie. Since I am no cowboy, I can't say much more about it.

Dane 



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Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline DanaM

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Re: In progress Roman manuballista - torsion arrow firing machine
« Reply #67 on: November 16, 2007, 08:01:19 pm »
Dane I'm going to my in laws tommow and they have 4 horses should I bring my scissors? ;D

Your a man of many talents Dane, please post some pics of the rope building process.
BTW your article on the northern bow was awesome, of course I would have let them rebs use a tater sack ;D
"Prosperity is a way of living and thinking, and not just money or things. Poverty is a way of living and thinking, and not just a lack of money or things."

Manistique, MI

Offline D. Tiller

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Re: In progress Roman manuballista - torsion arrow firing machine
« Reply #68 on: November 16, 2007, 08:02:50 pm »
Now what ever ya do dont try an smoke it! Its not HEMP!!!  ;D
“People are less likely to shoot at you if you smile at them” - Mad Jack Churchill

Offline Dane

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Re: In progress Roman manuballista - torsion arrow firing machine
« Reply #69 on: November 16, 2007, 08:15:36 pm »
What! I thought is a big honking blunt! :) That is really why I wanted it.
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline Dane

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Re: In progress Roman manuballista - torsion arrow firing machine
« Reply #70 on: November 16, 2007, 08:18:40 pm »
Dane I'm going to my in laws tommow and they have 4 horses should I bring my scissors? ;D

Your a man of many talents Dane, please post some pics of the rope building process.
BTW your article on the northern bow was awesome, of course I would have let them rebs use a tater sack ;D

lol, Dana. I will indeed document and write about the entire rope making process, with photos. I plan to press my spining wheel into making the smaller threads, possibly. My pug will of course end up in some shots (she is in one shot, you can just see her drinking water). I am really looking forward to this part of the project.

I have to wonder if this stuff would make into bow strings? Guess we will find out. I seem to recall reading about human hair bow strings in one of the Norse Sagas.
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline D. Tiller

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Re: In progress Roman manuballista - torsion arrow firing machine
« Reply #71 on: November 16, 2007, 08:30:40 pm »
I think you can make a bowstring from horse hair. Dont know how thick it would need to be but I would say GO FOR IT!!
“People are less likely to shoot at you if you smile at them” - Mad Jack Churchill

Offline DanaM

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Re: In progress Roman manuballista - torsion arrow firing machine
« Reply #72 on: November 16, 2007, 09:00:42 pm »
Dane I'm prety sure horse hoir will make a bow string. I have old fly tippets made of horse hair, haven't used em
they are a collectors item, but I am amazed at how tough they are. Horses beware ;D Of course Davenport needs to be in the pics as he is the cute one ;)
And most likely the master as well ::)
"Prosperity is a way of living and thinking, and not just money or things. Poverty is a way of living and thinking, and not just a lack of money or things."

Manistique, MI

Offline Dane

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Re: In progress Roman manuballista - torsion arrow firing machine
« Reply #73 on: November 17, 2007, 07:08:32 am »
Dane I'm going to my in laws tommow and they have 4 horses should I bring my scissors? ;D

Your a man of many talents Dane, please post some pics of the rope building process.
BTW your article on the northern bow was awesome, of course I would have let them rebs use a tater sack ;D

Yeah, bring scissors. They will love you as much as my inlaws love me (not!). Thanks about the article. I'm really pleased overall. Hillbilly did a fantastic job on his article. As for the tater sack, pity got the best of me :)

BTW, Davenport is the master. You are correct. She got me up at 3:30 wanting to play, but I get up at 4:00 anyway, so no big deal, even if it is my day off.
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline Dane

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Re: In progress Roman manuballista - torsion arrow firing machine
« Reply #74 on: November 17, 2007, 07:10:02 am »
I think you can make a bowstring from horse hair. Dont know how thick it would need to be but I would say GO FOR IT!!

Okay, I will. Dana is right, it seems really tough, much more so than I had expected it to. I have to determine the strength of the stuff so I can apply the x4 rule, but it should make into an interesting string. I only hope that it doesn't want an apple of a sugar cube, ha ha. And along those lines of thought, I can tell little girls the string is made from horse hair, but don't be sad, Flicka didn't suffer much.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 07:11:59 am by Dane »
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts