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Offline spyder1958

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Need some advise
« on: January 21, 2013, 12:40:06 pm »
Ok, Here's the problem. Out of 4 Ipe bows, two have had the handle area lift at the fades/tapper. I sand with 80 grit till all pieces are flat, (Very anal about getting the glue lines perfect), Then I clean with den. alcohol several times let dry, then glue up with Tb III. I've used diffrent clamping, and wraps and let glue dry for a least a week before working on again. During tillering or in the case of my daughters, Ipe/W. oak yesterday, the handle came loose during about a fifty shot break-in. no sound, I didn't notice until I was filing on the handle to shape it. One had the power lam under the backing and it still came loose. What do I need to change?
Thanks,
      Graylan
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Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: Need some advise
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2013, 12:44:25 pm »
Not enough fade length odds are. Its working too close to the handle and popping it off. Post some pics.
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Offline dragonman

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Re: Need some advise
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2013, 01:27:46 pm »
it could be that the ipe is tto oily to be removed by alcohol. Some ipe is extra oily and it really takes some work to get this off the gluing surface. I use acetone its a stronger  degreaser than alcohol and sometimes it still takes me many wipings and a whole load of acetone before that yellow/brown oil stops coming off. Or it could be as Pearl Drums says...or a combination of the 2 problems.
I use epoxy if I'm concerned about the fades with a serious degreasing the handle wont pop even if it bends into the fades.
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Offline DarkSoul

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Re: Need some advise
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2013, 03:19:06 pm »
Many people use Titebond 3 and ipé without degreasing. I doubt this will be your problem.

You need to laminate a blank that has a stiff handle even WITHOUT the handle glued on. That means either your powerlam fades need to be longer, the powerlam needs to be thicker, or the ipé belly needs to be thicker. Possibly a combination of these three factors. Post a picture of the handle area so we can rule out some things.
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Offline spyder1958

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Re: Need some advise
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2013, 03:38:27 pm »
PD, you may be right, I left the fades full width for 2" past the tapper but I did do some final scraping in that area for a smooth trans. I didn't notice it bending, but it has to be. I don't think I have any good pic. of them. What type of shot do you need? The first one that popped loose is the ipe/boo I posted for tiller advise, I had shot it quite a bit before it came loose. Here's a few I have before it popped.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,37032.msg488551.html#msg488551


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Offline spyder1958

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Re: Need some advise
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2013, 03:43:37 pm »




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Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: Need some advise
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2013, 03:46:38 pm »
The top pic looks right. How thick is the core of ipe?
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Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline spyder1958

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Re: Need some advise
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2013, 03:55:37 pm »
PD, Around 1/2" I'll have to ck.
Heres a pic of one that didn't pop, no lam, ash backed.

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Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: Need some advise
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2013, 04:01:26 pm »
Exactly what it should look like. I start with 3/4", or thicker core so that the handle section stays thick as I whittle the core down tillering the bow. It ends up looking like your last pic, but only a core and handle section. This is just my method, you may find others who have other ideas.
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Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline bubby

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Re: Need some advise
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2013, 06:52:18 pm »
yeah you need more wood in the fades area, the fades need to look just like that last pic
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Offline spyder1958

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Re: Need some advise
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2013, 08:56:41 pm »
Thanks everyone, I guess trying to make the riser area a little shorter and thicker at the final taper, plus, I did do some scraping and sanding within that 2" outside the fades. Ok, what do you all use for the length? I had 10" on this last one. 62" ttt
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