Pacific yew self ELB excessive set?? [PICS ADDED] [maker has replied to inquiry]

[nineworlds9]

Thanks Del.  Those words make me feel better about it.  For the type of bow it is, self Pac yew, I really did get it for lunch money, so I shouldn't complain, haha.  If it continues to perform the way it has, all the better.  I won't $^$% with it.   Reading the TBB vol.1-3 series just has me thinking a lot about bow design lately, and getting more hands on.  I'm actually inspired to try and make one myself at this point.  The main reason I have not contacted the bowyer about the bow at this point is our prior communications left something to be desired, it was kind of a 'sale, and wham bam thank ya mam' probably stemming from the fact that the bow was won for so little.  I have avoided further contact because I'd rather not have any negative communications back and forth and just feel ok about the bow with what I know on my own.  I don't want him to end up telling me "oh yeah, by the way it's a dud, sorry." or some such.  She's just gonna have to stay her gnarly old sweet shooting self for now and I'll like it. 

[nineworlds9]

Del, yes I meant the belly of the grip..the 'rear' of the grip indeed.

[dragonman]

Couldnt help but chime in here. I would say it all depends how much you payed for it. If it was expensive I would  have expected something better.  It isnt too difficult for a good bowyer to make a bow of that design with half that set.  It clearly isnt made that well. But if you didnt pay too much and it shoots arrows make the best of it.. Personnaly I'd be dissapointed , which you obviously are or you wouldnt have asked on this forum...sounds like you know this really anyway? complain to the maker and see what he says...nothing lost by doing that.

[nineworlds9]

Couldnt help but chime in here. I would say it all depends how much you payed for it. If it was expensive I would  have expected something better.  It isnt too difficult for a good bowyer to make a bow of that design with half that set.  It clearly isnt made that well. But if you didnt pay too much and it shoots arrows make the best of it.. Personnaly I'd be dissapointed , which you obviously are or you wouldnt have asked on this forum...sounds like you know this really anyway? complain to the maker and see what he says...nothing lost by doing that.

I'm not bashful.  $300.  From what I've seen a self yew by a true master should be 3 times that so I think I did 'ok.'  I imagine the stave probably cost at least $75. 

[dragonman]

I dont know about USA prices, but  a good self yew bow over here would be easily double that...yew is hard to get here. Yeah so looks like you'll just have to accept the set, not much is perfect  in this world. Just to own any self yew bow is a privilege...I dont have one...the main thing with any bow is how it shoots, thats the real judge of quality, the performance

[nineworlds9]

I dont know about USA prices, but  a good self yew bow over here would be easily double that...yew is hard to get here. Yeah so looks like you'll just have to accept the set, not much is perfect  in this world. Just to own any self yew bow is a privilege...I dont have one...the main thing with any bow is how it shoots, thats the real judge of quality, the performance

Yeah I bet.  You know, concerns or not, you're right, I do feel privelaged to own this crooked %ss bow, haha. Other than my Strunk its the only other bow I've owned/shot that feels 'alive'.  I have quite a few other bows, but they are all glass laminated and honestly feel like dead things compared to bows like this one and the Strunk.  I'll have to give her a weird/messed up name to go with her weird 'self' self

[dragonman]

no man....give her a posotive name....

[nineworlds9]

Yes positive, you're right...but weird 

Originally I was thinking something like 'Hecate', but maybe something like 'Luna' would be better

[rossfactor]

Maybe this was mentioned already but.... to have any idea how much set there is in that bow you'de have to know the form of the stave before tillering started.  Was it perfectly straight or was it naturally deflexed?

If the stave was naturally deflexed by 3 inches, than you've only got 0.5 inches of set.

I believe there is a difference in performance between a deflexed stave(one that grew or dried that way) and a stave where set has been induced do to stress from tillering and shooting. Just my .02. String follow and set are two different beasts.

Gabe

[nineworlds9]

Maybe this was mentioned already but.... to have any idea how much set there is in that bow you'de have to know the form of the stave before tillering started.  Was it perfectly straight or was it naturally deflexed?

If the stave was naturally deflexed by 3 inches, than you've only got 0.5 inches of set.

I believe there is a difference in performance between a deflexed stave(one that grew or dried that way) and a stave where set has been induced do to stress from tillering and shooting. Just my .02. String follow and set are two different beasts.

Gabe

Gabe, I had not even thought of that, while not a novice to archery, definitely a novice to bowyering.  You make an interesting point.  It is true, as I mentioned, I have not noticed more than a 0.25 inch variation in the bows measurement of 3.5", flat plane to belly of the grip...max I've seen after shooting it over multiple long sessions is 0.25".  It would be really neat if your theory was right and the bow had 3" of NATURAL deflex and was in fact only following 0.25-0.5" under stress.  I'm waiting to hear back from the maker, perhaps he can shed more light on the stave he started with...

[nineworlds9]

This is what I learned from the maker.  My concerns are laid to rest and I'm going to quit being so dang scientific and just enjoy the dang bow!:

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"Personally I'd not worry much about the set. It did take what I consider more set than usual but I still like the way it shoots so didn't try to correct it. some of it is natural deflex too..it started out with 1.5" or so of deflex...yew is so hard for me to get every piece is special so I normally don't like to do a lot of heating and reflexing on it. I can take it out with heat but the draw weight will go up drastically and it will need to be retillered . I would advise against that since there would not be a drastic performance gain. I just built one this week that's only 67"s long and pulls about 70#s....haven't scaled it yet... and it has zero set so far but I've only shot it 30-40 times. It doesn't shoot any better than your bow though.
 
I read your post on primitive archer. I don't want you to think it was just a sale. I take pride in my bows and if I didn't communicate enough I'm sorry. I just didn't really have anything more I knew to say..all I really know to say is it's made of yew, horn nocks ELB tiller and the specs..I bought the stave so don't have any history on it. I was happy with the sale price too so that's not an issue.  If you're unhappy with it I'd be happy to buy it back for what you paid...I'll pay your shipping too."

Also:
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I wanted to revise what I said about the natural deflex...I said 1.5 inches I notice you're measuring and calling it 3.75 inches. From your pic and what I remember about the stave not much of that is set really...or crushing of the belly fibers...a lot of that is natural which really does make a big difference if you have handled a bow with with that much actual set it wouldn't have as much early string tension as that bow. so by your measurement you can say 3"s of that is natural. One thing also to get a spot on accurate measurement of "set" run a string from the middle of the nock to the middle of the other nock and measure the distance the string lies from the belly. That thing has bulbous horn nocks so they're making it sit off the floor quite  a bit more than a bow with self nocks. I'm not really trying to influence your opinion of the bow or defend it I guess you'd say.... it just sounds like you're wanting to know if it's gonna perform on par with other ELBs. I know how stuff like that can be..you enjoy the bow but every time you unstring it you keep staring at it again I'd be happy to buy it back if it bothers you."


Well that settles it!    The type of person I want to always do business with if I can help it.  "Luna" is going to be shot and enjoyed and with any luck is going to take some game!